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I quit: Miseries of an Uber driver

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Re: I quit: Miseries of an Uber driver

#51

Post by qeorge »

bane wrote: post #50
dnautics wrote: post #27

I'm not sure how her back to back drives add up to only $10/hr. I drive Uber/Lyft in San Diego, routinely don't get back-to-back rides and have some long stretches of downtime, and usually make $1000 on a 50 hour on-call week (~30h of actual drive time). So that's about $20/hour. If you minus gas (~150/wk) that's a little bit less; I drive a honda insight, which gets slightly worse gas mileage than the prius, and the…

> and usually make $1000 on a 50 hour on-call week (~30h of actual drive time). So that's about $20/hour. Now subtract car payments, insurance, wear and tear, etc. Here's an example of how this breaks down: You work 215 hours per month on average (50 * 4.3 weeks) and make $4,300 revenue during that time (or $51,600/year). - Subtract self-employment tax 15.3% - ~$7900 - Taxable income 37,650 - ~$5,300 in taxes so subt…

That's an excellent breakdown, thank you for doing that.

I think Uber's current pricing advantage over standard cabs relies on their driver's not being aware of these costs (especially Taxi insurance). That said, I think they could just raise prices to cover it and still have a great business.

Also, $10/hour is more than I ever made as a shift worker. It sucks, but plenty of people are willing to work for that rate. Thus the OP may be making a moot point.

Re: I quit: Miseries of an Uber driver

#52

Post by berkay »

frostmatthew wrote: post #48
ytNumbers wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With their current gross revenue growth rates, some are speculating that in a couple of years their annual net profits will be more than $1 billion dollars. http://www.businessinsider.com/ubers-revenue-2014-11

> their annual net profits will be more than $1 billion dollars. Where do you see that from the article you linked? It says So $10 billion of gross revenue would equate to $2 billion of net revenue. To have profits of over $1B on $2B of revenue would mean a profit margin of over 50%!

Why do you think Uber is about to raise funding with ~$40 billion valuation? They don't have profits now because they are investing in growth.

Re: I quit: Miseries of an Uber driver

#53

Post by cddotdotslash »

I've had incredibly mixed experiences using Uber in NYC and DC. It used to be great. Now, it seems that every other driver has no idea how to get both to me and then my destination. In DC, the drivers routinely go ten to twenty minutes out of the way. Almost every trip I have to submit a refund request which is always granted, but it's still a pain. In NYC, drivers have yet to figure out one way streets and watching them go up the wrong avenue and circle around my apartment three times has become a past time of mine. After reading this article, it seems like the GPS might be to blame.

Re: I quit: Miseries of an Uber driver

#54

Post by bane »

qeorge wrote: post #51
bane wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and usually make $1000 on a 50 hour on-call week (~30h of actual drive time). So that's about $20/hour. Now subtract car payments, insurance, wear and tear, etc. Here's an example of how this breaks down: You work 215 hours per month on average (50 * 4.3 weeks) and make $4,300 revenue during that time (or $51,600/year). - Subtract self-employment tax 15.3% - ~$7900 - Taxable income 37,650 - ~$5,300 in taxes so subt…

That's an excellent breakdown, thank you for doing that. I think Uber's current pricing advantage over standard cabs relies on their driver's not being aware of these costs (especially Taxi insurance). That said, I think they could just raise prices to cover it and still have a great business. Also, $10/hour is more than I ever made as a shift worker. It sucks, but plenty of people are willing to work for that rate.…

Yeah. I think in the end he's making about what he could make working minimum wage...and plenty of people do that.

Re: I quit: Miseries of an Uber driver

#55

Post by zb »

The one time I ordered an Uber, we spent 25 minutes waiting while the driver drove around a similarly (but still quite distinctly) named street on the other side of town. After several phone calls, she ended up using her own GPS navigator to find us.

So I can corroborate what this article is saying: Uber has absolutely no clue where you are even given both an address and map co-ordinates. Presumably they rely on a terrible reverse geocoding implementation and discard the other information. That's surprising, because years ago I used to work on firmware for navigation devices and I don't recall reverse geocoding ever causing major issues (there were always minor inaccuracies when you round-tripped the data, but you never ended up on the wrong side of town) - I thought it was a solved problem.

For the record, neither Google Maps nor Apple Maps have ever had trouble distinguishing between those two locations (though humans sometimes do), so they broke it all by themselves.

Re: I quit: Miseries of an Uber driver

#56

Post by Retric »

bane wrote: post #50
dnautics wrote: post #27

I'm not sure how her back to back drives add up to only $10/hr. I drive Uber/Lyft in San Diego, routinely don't get back-to-back rides and have some long stretches of downtime, and usually make $1000 on a 50 hour on-call week (~30h of actual drive time). So that's about $20/hour. If you minus gas (~150/wk) that's a little bit less; I drive a honda insight, which gets slightly worse gas mileage than the prius, and the…

> and usually make $1000 on a 50 hour on-call week (~30h of actual drive time). So that's about $20/hour. Now subtract car payments, insurance, wear and tear, etc. Here's an example of how this breaks down: You work 215 hours per month on average (50 * 4.3 weeks) and make $4,300 revenue during that time (or $51,600/year). - Subtract self-employment tax 15.3% - ~$7900 - Taxable income 37,650 - ~$5,300 in taxes so subt…

You should be using pre tax numbers for expenses.

Re: I quit: Miseries of an Uber driver

#57

Post by bane »

Retric wrote: post #56
bane wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and usually make $1000 on a 50 hour on-call week (~30h of actual drive time). So that's about $20/hour. Now subtract car payments, insurance, wear and tear, etc. Here's an example of how this breaks down: You work 215 hours per month on average (50 * 4.3 weeks) and make $4,300 revenue during that time (or $51,600/year). - Subtract self-employment tax 15.3% - ~$7900 - Taxable income 37,650 - ~$5,300 in taxes so subt…

You should be using pre tax numbers for expenses.

Can you give an example where what I provided was incorrect?

- Car payments are the same

- Gas is the same

- Insurance is the same

- Vehicle wear and tear is the same

I'm sure I made a mistake somewhere or overlooked something...

Re: I quit: Miseries of an Uber driver

#58

Post by Retric »

bane wrote: post #57
Retric wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should be using pre tax numbers for expenses.

Can you give an example where what I provided was incorrect? - Car payments are the same - Gas is the same - Insurance is the same - Vehicle wear and tear is the same I'm sure I made a mistake somewhere or overlooked something...

At the start:

"You work 215 hours per month on average (50 * 4.3 weeks) and make $4,300 revenue during that time (or $51,600/year). - Subtract self-employment tax 15.3% - ~$7900 - Taxable income 37,650 - ~$5,300 in taxes so subtract that"

You don't pay self employment tax on revenue you pay it on profit. So if your paying ex:10,000 in expences for gas then you would pay (51,600 - 10,000) * 15.3% = 6364$ in self employment taxes.

Re: I quit: Miseries of an Uber driver

#59

Post by ghshephard »

ekanes wrote: post #37
ghshephard wrote: post #31

Regarding ETA times - They were really, really good on the Peninsula in the bay area - over 50 or so rides, and ETA of 5-15 minutes would usually be within 2 minutes of the correct time. Here in Dubai - they are ludicrously incorrect. I'll see a "8 minute ETA" that turns out to be 35 minutes, more often than not. This seems to be a very solvable problem. During certain hours, traffic is very slow. I've only been here…

Consider that Dubai might have different cultural norms as well, which could affect drivers' hurry/accuracy factor.

That's not it - I've taken UberX here about 15 or so times - and the drivers have all been courteous, professional and timely. A lot of them are black car drivers as well, so it's hit and miss when you summon an UberX vehicle, you might just end up with a Lexus a professional driver.

When I see where the cars are, and where I am, I can usually make a guess as to how long they will be based on a months worth of local knowledge - another example is traffic flows to/from Sharjah, the emirate next to Dubai. In the morning all the traffic comes from Sharjah, and in the evening it all goes the return direction. The Exact same trip from Business Bay in Dubai to Al Qusais might take 15 minutes or 60 minutes - but the time is entirely predicable - Uber just doesn't seem to do it here.

Re: I quit: Miseries of an Uber driver

#60

Post by cpks »

The Uber drvers I speak to have generally have had a much more positive experience.

One difference may be point-of-reference. A software engineer has much higher expectations for income, treatment, etc. than blue collar or unskilled workers do. The Radio Shack article a few weeks back is much closer to what happens to most people in the US.

When you talk to taxi drivers, the experience is much, much worse. They have to lease a medallion. The rates vary by market, but typical price might be $150 per day. Because they lease the medallion, they're generally forced to work insane hours. An 8 hour shift is a guaranteed money-losing proposition. Still, if they make less than $150 -- which happens on a bad day, they come out behind. If they have a good day, they'll make a bit over minimum wage. The income is incredibly variable -- a fixed $150/day cost, combined with variable revenue, guarantees that. That makes financial management tough.

It's a really tough, really bad business.

Compared to that, Uber and similar services are a breath of fresh air.

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