Is the NYPD About to Start Ticketing More Cyclists Due to a Mathematical Error? • Hacker News Board

Re: Is the NYPD About to Start Ticketing More Cyclists Due to a Mathematical Error?

#51

Post by revelation » Wed, Nov 26, 2014, 5:30 PM UTC

Arainach wrote: post #32

shittyanalogy wrote: post #27

I never really understood the value in ticketing cyclists, or jay walkers for that matter in NYC. Very few people are getting hurt, even in the densest metropolitan area in the country so why are we so worried about it? Because cyclists can be annoying sometimes? Also the city speed limit went down to 25 mph. Isn't this supposed to take care of many of the collisions? Those of us that are safe cyclists but run red li…

> Those of us that are safe cyclists but run red lights Speaking as someone who bikes/takes transit everywhere (in Seattle, not NYC), what an oxymoron. I'm not saying that at every single stop sign you have to come to a complete, foot-on-the-ground stop, but running lights is ridiculous and will do nothing but increase the hatred for all cyclists held by drivers by antagonizing them. Every OTHER form of transportatio…

I cycle everywhere, and I stop at every light. But I also realize that the rules of the road aren't some magic tome that came to us from the gods. They were introduced primarily to curb the massive injuries and problems from the early introduction of cars. At that point, bicycles were already around for many many years.

So you combine terrible infrastructure for bikes with road rules that don't protect them, relegate them to the sides, but expect them to follow all of the car-designed rules, which often make no sense for vehicles going It's the old UI adage, "the user isn't wrong".

Re: Is the NYPD About to Start Ticketing More Cyclists Due to a Mathematical Error?

#52

Post by jghn » Wed, Nov 26, 2014, 5:30 PM UTC

shittyanalogy wrote: post #27

I never really understood the value in ticketing cyclists, or jay walkers for that matter in NYC. Very few people are getting hurt, even in the densest metropolitan area in the country so why are we so worried about it? Because cyclists can be annoying sometimes? Also the city speed limit went down to 25 mph. Isn't this supposed to take care of many of the collisions? Those of us that are safe cyclists but run red li…

As a pedestrian in Boston, the cyclists who don't follow the rules have been the most dangerous for me. Just because it's safe to blow through a red light in terms of vehicular traffic doesn't mean that you're not going to run over a pedestrian.

I've yet to be hit, but I've come damn close many times. To add insult to injury, most of the time the cyclists has yelled at me to watch where I'm going. The hypocrisy of that one astounded me.

Re: Is the NYPD About to Start Ticketing More Cyclists Due to a Mathematical Error?

#53

Post by clarry » Wed, Nov 26, 2014, 5:30 PM UTC

genericuser wrote: post #40

clarry wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can increase hatred towards you, but that does not make you an unsafe cyclist.

If the drivers are present and having their hatred increased, then the cars are present and you shouldn't be running the red light when cars are present, because yes that does make you an unsafe cyclist in that regard.

No, the colour of a light doesn't make crossing the street unsafe. Even if there are fifty cars waiting at that intersection and a thousand more parked at the next lot.

Re: Is the NYPD About to Start Ticketing More Cyclists Due to a Mathematical Error?

#54

Post by shittyanalogy » Wed, Nov 26, 2014, 5:31 PM UTC

genericuser wrote: post #43

shittyanalogy wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every OTHER form of transportation... Certainly does not stop at every red light. Specifically pedestrians. Bikes are more maneuverable and faster than pedestrians while decreasing safety only by the slightest margin if even any. I honestly don't see the problem. Also I think it's important to note that there is no term for "safely crossing an intersection even though the light is red." That and blowing through indis…

As someone that has had to come to some pretty abrupt stops because bikes darted out into intersections from behind cars while they had a red light and I had a green turn arrow. I disagree. I am in Boston not NYC but there is one intersection I go through in my daily commute where this happens at least once a month, and the first couple times it happened was nearly bad.

Some people are reckless, ticketing those of us that will stop when a police officer puts his arm out isn't going to stop the reckless.

Re: Is the NYPD About to Start Ticketing More Cyclists Due to a Mathematical Error?

#55

Post by shittyanalogy » Wed, Nov 26, 2014, 5:31 PM UTC

smackfu wrote: post #48

shittyanalogy wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every OTHER form of transportation... Certainly does not stop at every red light. Specifically pedestrians. Bikes are more maneuverable and faster than pedestrians while decreasing safety only by the slightest margin if even any. I honestly don't see the problem. Also I think it's important to note that there is no term for "safely crossing an intersection even though the light is red." That and blowing through indis…

How about a car example: If there is a four-way stop, and a car runs a stop sign because they can see there is no one else waiting, should they be ticketed? This is a case where if something is done relatively infrequently, it is quite safe. But once it becomes common, it is very unsafe. A lot of other traffic laws are the same.

Cars kill people often. Bikes extremely rarely do.

Re: Is the NYPD About to Start Ticketing More Cyclists Due to a Mathematical Error?

#56

Post by jghn » Wed, Nov 26, 2014, 5:33 PM UTC

schrodinger wrote: post #36

Arainach wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Those of us that are safe cyclists but run red lights Speaking as someone who bikes/takes transit everywhere (in Seattle, not NYC), what an oxymoron. I'm not saying that at every single stop sign you have to come to a complete, foot-on-the-ground stop, but running lights is ridiculous and will do nothing but increase the hatred for all cyclists held by drivers by antagonizing them. Every OTHER form of transportatio…

Eh, I'm a cyclist in NYC and when i come to a red light i slow way down and if there are any pedestrians or cars, I stop. But if it's completely clear, I'll roll through slowly and carefully. It feels pretty safe and I make sure that I always come to complete stops far back if there are pedestrians because they have the right away. I've heard that some states legally treat red lights and stop signs as yield signs for…

"if it's completely clear"

That's my philosophy. I primarily walk, but at times drive & bike.

My take is that iff there is no one else who could possibly be impacted by it that running stop signs and red lights is AOK.

The problem I often see with this is that most people only consider one of the other two modes of transportation (no on cares about Segways, muahaha!) and forgets the other one - often the pedestrians.

Re: Is the NYPD About to Start Ticketing More Cyclists Due to a Mathematical Error?

#57

Post by otoburb » Wed, Nov 26, 2014, 5:34 PM UTC

schrodinger wrote: post #36

Arainach wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Those of us that are safe cyclists but run red lights Speaking as someone who bikes/takes transit everywhere (in Seattle, not NYC), what an oxymoron. I'm not saying that at every single stop sign you have to come to a complete, foot-on-the-ground stop, but running lights is ridiculous and will do nothing but increase the hatred for all cyclists held by drivers by antagonizing them. Every OTHER form of transportatio…

Eh, I'm a cyclist in NYC and when i come to a red light i slow way down and if there are any pedestrians or cars, I stop. But if it's completely clear, I'll roll through slowly and carefully. It feels pretty safe and I make sure that I always come to complete stops far back if there are pedestrians because they have the right away. I've heard that some states legally treat red lights and stop signs as yield signs for…

I'm fine with cyclists slowing down before hitting a red light and then rolling through because I'm at least somewhat assured that they made an active effort to look out for adult or child pedestrians and pets.

What I really hate is a pack of cyclists blowing past a red light when my kids are walking with me across a sidewalk (example: Riverside Drive).

Re: Is the NYPD About to Start Ticketing More Cyclists Due to a Mathematical Error?

#58

Post by mikeash » Wed, Nov 26, 2014, 5:34 PM UTC

jasonjei wrote: post #37

As a motorcyclist, I think cyclists should be held to the same rules of the law as other vehicles to make driving predictable and safe. As it stands right now, I have to assume cyclists (via heuristics/profiling) as a wildcard--will they run a red light? Will they weave in and out of traffic unsafely (this is an acceptable practice, when done with ample buffer given their size and speed)? I think cycling is great (I'…

Around here (DC area) I have to assume that about drivers too. I've seen drivers blow through red lights, turn right on red from the center lane while pedestrians are trying to cross the street, even drive the wrong way down one-way roads, or on the wrong side of a divided road. Drivers fail to use their turn signals more often than not. Crossing the street in front of a car is a crapshoot, as people will often look left and then proceed without looking straight again.

Bicyclists can be a nuisance, but drivers are a menace. I know where I'd like to see enforcement concentrated, and it's not on the bicyclists.

Re: Is the NYPD About to Start Ticketing More Cyclists Due to a Mathematical Error?

#59

Post by shittyanalogy » Wed, Nov 26, 2014, 5:34 PM UTC

jasonjei wrote: post #37

As a motorcyclist, I think cyclists should be held to the same rules of the law as other vehicles to make driving predictable and safe. As it stands right now, I have to assume cyclists (via heuristics/profiling) as a wildcard--will they run a red light? Will they weave in and out of traffic unsafely (this is an acceptable practice, when done with ample buffer given their size and speed)? I think cycling is great (I'…

I ride as well, but do you honestly think that motorcycles aren't wild cards? How many motorcyclists die or get seriously injured yealry as a result of their own recklessness as opposed to bikes. Do you honestly thing that bicyclists don't view every single motor vehicle as a wild card? The damage tables are enormously shifted.

Re: Is the NYPD About to Start Ticketing More Cyclists Due to a Mathematical Error?

#60

Post by genericuser » Wed, Nov 26, 2014, 5:35 PM UTC

shittyanalogy wrote: post #54

genericuser wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone that has had to come to some pretty abrupt stops because bikes darted out into intersections from behind cars while they had a red light and I had a green turn arrow. I disagree. I am in Boston not NYC but there is one intersection I go through in my daily commute where this happens at least once a month, and the first couple times it happened was nearly bad.

Some people are reckless, ticketing those of us that will stop when a police officer puts his arm out isn't going to stop the reckless.

True but ticketing the reckless ones is needed, and the fact there are reckless ones, enough that I encounter them regularly at the same intersection(its a really long light) indicates to me it should be enforced. So I was disagreeing with your belief that "while decreasing safety only by the slightest margin if even any. I honestly don't see the problem."