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Obama likely to expand a foreign-student pipeline the high-tech industry loves

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Obama likely to expand a foreign-student pipeline the high-tech industry loves

#51

Post by jquery »

shas3 wrote: post #44
cryoshon wrote: post #6

If Obama's drive for immigration reform uses the logic of "STEM SHORTAGE!!!" as a basis for expanding OPT, it means that hyperbole has won, and we here at HN will suffer lower wages and a more competitive job market as a result. I'm not actually sure that this is what the rhetoric is going to look like, but the rest of my comment assumes that it will look that way as it pertains to the expansion of OPT. There is no S…

I think there are a lot of misconceptions on this thread, especially since the article mostly talks about OPT! US domiciles' desire for protectionism is understandable. But it cannot be couched in language of fairness and equity. In a truly meritocratic society, one cannot claim competitive advantage based on where they were born. The objective of legal immigration is to help companies hire the best talent, irrespect…

> The objective of legal immigration is to help companies hire the best talent, irrespective of nationality.

This is radical stuff. No, the objective of legal immigration is to help Americans. The objective of the federal government is to serve Americans. It's not clear at all that flooding the American labor market with foreign nationals is good for Americans.

Re: Obama likely to expand a foreign-student pipeline the high-tech industry loves

#52

Post by dferr »

thisisdallas wrote: post #29

So who exactly is this helping? Ok, I know it helps out foreign students, but I am asking strictly from an American perspective. First and foremost, the governments job is to serve the American people. How does this specific action of Obama's immigration proposal help the American people as a whole? It's a 100% possibility that I have this wrong but I see two groups who this helps. The first group is foreigners who l…

> and the second group is big businesses who can most likely hire lower wage workers.

They're called Billionaires Without Borders. And it sickens me to see them feign interest in diversity and globalization, when really they're looking for cheaper Tech labor, because heaven forbid capitalism from ever working in the american employees favor.

Re: Obama likely to expand a foreign-student pipeline the high-tech industry loves

#54

Post by talmand »

sidko wrote: post #40
thisisdallas wrote: post #29

So who exactly is this helping? Ok, I know it helps out foreign students, but I am asking strictly from an American perspective. First and foremost, the governments job is to serve the American people. How does this specific action of Obama's immigration proposal help the American people as a whole? It's a 100% possibility that I have this wrong but I see two groups who this helps. The first group is foreigners who l…

Without foreign born workers, half of Silicon Valley wouldn't have existed. Is that a good enough reason?

Well, I feel it is not.

The reasons and successes of the past does not necessarily guarantee success by following the same pattern today. Saying something was good before doesn't provide a free pass from questions on the validity of repeating policies of the past.

Not that I'm stating an opinion on the matter one way or another, but I would say the question is valid and your answer comes across as dismissive.

Re: Obama likely to expand a foreign-student pipeline the high-tech industry loves

#55

Post by icebraining »

rayiner wrote: post #39
LLWM wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bit sad that you see competition on a global scale as "being fucked over". If someone else can do the same job just as well as you, you think employers should be forced to hire you instead just because you happened to be born in the right country? That's just selfishness that harms everyone else.

People are entitled to their self-interest, and it is in peoples' self-interest to avoid the race to the bottom that results from globalization. Furthermore, governments exist to serve their specific constituents, not to hew to abstract humanist principles. Also, even within the context of abstract humanist principles, immigration isn't wholly positive. My family and I are immigrants to the U.S. It's been great for u…

It's been great for us, not so great for the country we came from that sees all its bright and ambitious people leave never to return.

Remittances alone are on the order of half a trillion per year, much higher than all foreign aid combined. And lots of people do return when they're older and richer.

Re: Obama likely to expand a foreign-student pipeline the high-tech industry loves

#56

Post by thisisdallas »

cortesoft wrote: post #47
thisisdallas wrote: post #29

So who exactly is this helping? Ok, I know it helps out foreign students, but I am asking strictly from an American perspective. First and foremost, the governments job is to serve the American people. How does this specific action of Obama's immigration proposal help the American people as a whole? It's a 100% possibility that I have this wrong but I see two groups who this helps. The first group is foreigners who l…

While some of the money foreign workers make is sent back home to family in another country, a lot of it is spent right here in the US, boosting our economy. Often, those foreign workers end up moving here permanently, meaning more of their earned money is spent in this country. A vast majority of these foreign workers become huge net positives for the US economy. The economy doesn't work like you seem to think it do…

This is a really good reply and it's the type of comment I was looking for. Thanks for offering a positive or different view from mine!

Re: Obama likely to expand a foreign-student pipeline the high-tech industry loves

#57

Post by trhway »

thisisdallas wrote: post #29

So who exactly is this helping? Ok, I know it helps out foreign students, but I am asking strictly from an American perspective. First and foremost, the governments job is to serve the American people. How does this specific action of Obama's immigration proposal help the American people as a whole? It's a 100% possibility that I have this wrong but I see two groups who this helps. The first group is foreigners who l…

>So who exactly is this helping?

it improves gene/social/economical makeup of American society first and foremost. Best and brightest young people is the best thing one can import.

Take just one very simple aspect - society needs infrastructure and resources committed for 20 years for 5 kids to get one successful college graduation bound educated young person. Out of the rest 4 some will during next 60 years of their life become a net negative like go to prison, unemployment, spawn next generation of low-productive members of society (cue in opening of "Idiocracy" :), etc... Or you can just "magically" import exactly that 1 bright and healthy 20 year old leaving the other 4 and the related 5 x 20 years expenditures to another country :)

Re: Obama likely to expand a foreign-student pipeline the high-tech industry loves

#58

Post by talmand »

icebraining wrote: post #38
cryoshon wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The free market favors the wealth of corporations at the detriment of individual people. The tech companies would absolutely love it if they could get away with paying their workers as little as the developing countries do; decreasing wages results in increased profits, which are the only thing that matter to them. I don't see a reason why we have to abide by their greed when we have so much to lose and nothing to ga…

nothing to gain. Except for those foreigners who get much higher salaries than at home, plus their whole families and communities thanks to remittances.

But we can easily reverse that. What about the local that now has to accept lower wages at home, which also affects their whole families and communities?

Re: Obama likely to expand a foreign-student pipeline the high-tech industry loves

#59

Post by icebraining »

ElComradio wrote: post #50
icebraining wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

nothing to gain. Except for those foreigners who get much higher salaries than at home, plus their whole families and communities thanks to remittances.

Do you have any disposable income? You can pick somebody who did not get approved for H1B and send some money to his family each month. You don't need to wait for him to get a job in SV. Start now.

I make $15k/year in a western country, how much disposable income do you think I have?

In any case, I don't see why should I pay for someone else's discrimination.

Re: Obama likely to expand a foreign-student pipeline the high-tech industry loves

#60

Post by [deleted] »

Retra wrote: post #48
rayiner wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are entitled to their self-interest, and it is in peoples' self-interest to avoid the race to the bottom that results from globalization. Furthermore, governments exist to serve their specific constituents, not to hew to abstract humanist principles. Also, even within the context of abstract humanist principles, immigration isn't wholly positive. My family and I are immigrants to the U.S. It's been great for u…

Why are people entitled to self interest? Why aren't people entitled to group interest? Governments exist because having them tends to lead to better decision-making than the alternative. That's all it requires. Nobody is proposing that anarchy would better serve anyone.

[deleted]
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