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Global Slavery Index 2014

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51–54 of 54 posts

Re: Global Slavery Index 2014

#51
post #47
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

please explain how I was in control You're asking me to explain why you weren't in control as an infant? Can you explain to me how you were oppressed by taxes as an infant? You're trying to play the victim so explain yourself: where is this indentured infant servitude you're claiming you suffered under? You're saying that the tax system has no significant difference between it and "the exactions imposed on a slave",…

> "You're asking me to explain why you weren't in control as an infant? Can you explain to me how you were oppressed by taxes as an infant? You're trying to play the victim so explain yourself: where is this indentured infant servitude you're claiming you suffered under?" I am subject to my current tax and legal regimes only because I happened to be born in a state which has them. This is what I mean by my lack of ch…

Libertarianism really is the 'only child' of the political world. They really want to have their cake and not share it. And you really still want to paint yourself as a victim; as a slave from birth. The problem with libertarians reappropriating words like this is that they water them down and stop real discussion from happening.

only because I happened to be born in a state which has them

Such a victim! My guess is that like most libertarians (and your handle plus being on HN), you're white, male, skilled, and with a good income (for the record, I am). You may not be, but the chances are that you are. If so, you're in one of the best-off demographics that has existed in the history of the world, and still you want to claim systematic victimhood. And yet, you're trying to identify with slaves, basking in the reflected anti-glory of the word.

Here's the rub: you have a choice. Particularly if you're in the US. You can go off the grid easily. You can live on public lands, moving around. You can support yourself hunting. Or bartering. You can just not engage in things that connect you to the government. Plenty of people do - witness the huge amount of illegal aliens the US has. Hell, you can even emigrate, no-one's stopping you. Millions of people voluntarily migrate every year, including out of developed nations into developing ones. Move to Vanuatu. Good weather. Happy people. Tiny government. No income tax (unless you're a landlord). You can live the libertarian dream of few government services, choosing to hire your own garbage collectors and whatnot. Other places like that exist all over the world.

But no, you want the lifestyle that taxes provide, but without having to pay taxes. So you join a political movement that has no hope of ever gaining real traction with its ideals, all so you can paint yourself as a victim to make yourself feel better. If you want to live without taxes, you can. Bam, your 'slavery' is over.

Libertarianism has great rhetorics and its members are skilled rhetoricians, but it has no answers for people who don't have plenty of privilege - which is most people, and which is why it'll never gain traction. Take the simple case of someone born with a congenital disease or subject to an accident that wasn't their fault. Most other philosophies would say "hey everyone, chip into the pot and that person can be helped", at least as an ideal. Libertarianism takes the "only child" approach of "sucks to be you. making me share is violent, and therefore immoral!". For all its rhetoric, libertarianism is very short on practical answers.

So no, modern taxation is not slavery or anything like it, and you weaken the impact of the word by saying it is. And you can escape the slavery you see yourself in - you are tacitly choosing to remain within it. However oppressed you think you were as an infant (somehow by the tax you weren't paying), you are now an adult, and you are choosing to remain within the system you despise yet can so easily remove yourself from.

Re: Global Slavery Index 2014

#52
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> under threat of confinement In the area of taxes, nobody is making such a threat. As I said above, "confinement" (jail) is the one thing that that would be the one thing that can't happen for only inability to pay. > hides the money See, that's not what I'm talking about. By attempting to hide what would otherwise be taxable money, you are committing a different crime, which is really a type of fraud (or possibly,…

My apologies for not being clearer, but then again this honestly this strikes me as overly pedantic. By coercion I meant coercion in the broadest sense as anything designed to influence your behavior - eg induce pain or potential hardship so that paying taxes seems more desirable than not paying them. Therefore, while the legal classifications of the particular offenses may vary and be debatated ad nauseum, I don't t…

I would agree that the interpretation being used here by the government (and others) is indeed waling a fine line. I see it as mainly a historical thing: guaranteeing at least personal liberty in a system that uses taxes was a huge improvement over what came before it. We should, of course, try to improve the situation even further in the future.

I jsut think the tax issue is somewhat less important than aquite a few of the other threats to freedom that currently exist. (the prison labor mentioned above being a good example. There are other concewrns, too, of course.

Re: Global Slavery Index 2014

#53
post #32
post #2

The definition of slavery according to them: Modern slavery involves one person possessing or controlling a person in such as a way as to significantly deprive that person of their individual liberty, with the intention of exploiting that person through their use, management, profit, transfer or disposal. I would like to know what significantly means. Were African slaves in America "significantly deprived" or just "d…

Were African slaves in America "significantly deprived" or just "deprived". Taken away from their homelands by force to a different continent, using a technology that they couldn't replicate to get back? Forced to work in specific locations, and if they ran away, they were hunted down and brought back? Sold as objects for labour? Is this a serious question? How much more 'significant' does it need to be before it rea…

Oh, no, I guess I didn’t express myself properly. It is obvious that they were slaves. I was asking if the significant would actually be necessary in that case. And if it wouldn't be, what is significant implying in this definition? Does current slavery allow for more personal liberties that old fashion slavery.

Re: Global Slavery Index 2014

#54
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My apologies for not being clearer, but then again this honestly this strikes me as overly pedantic. By coercion I meant coercion in the broadest sense as anything designed to influence your behavior - eg induce pain or potential hardship so that paying taxes seems more desirable than not paying them. Therefore, while the legal classifications of the particular offenses may vary and be debatated ad nauseum, I don't t…

I would agree that the interpretation being used here by the government (and others) is indeed waling a fine line. I see it as mainly a historical thing: guaranteeing at least personal liberty in a system that uses taxes was a huge improvement over what came before it. We should, of course, try to improve the situation even further in the future. I jsut think the tax issue is somewhat less important than aquite a few…

We are in total agreement here. Taxes are far less concerning to me (and honestly seem like a distraction) compared to any number of other more impactful and coercive systems in existence.
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