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London’s Legendary Taxi-Driver Test Puts Up a Fight in the Age of GPS

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51–60 of 110 posts

Re: London’s Legendary Taxi-Driver Test Puts Up a Fight in the Age of GPS

#51
post #5

GPS routing is awful compared to a person who knows their way around a city. Uber drivers in hilly cities like San Francisco never, ever think to avoid climbing right up and down the steepest hills - the algorithms don't tell them not to, there's no traffic and it's not a low speed limit , it just sucks for other reasons. I had a driver last week who had never heard of Valencia St, and then misunderstood the GPS voic…

> GPS routing is awful compared to a person who knows their way around a city. Strongly disagreed. GPS has traffic information, a human driver does not.

But a licensed cab driver can just as well use traffic information provided by a GPS device.

Re: London’s Legendary Taxi-Driver Test Puts Up a Fight in the Age of GPS

#52
post #7

I would take a London taxi for the same reason that I'd read a paper book, for the experience, not for the result. The Knowledge is such a wonderful anachronism, and I hope that it can co-exist in some form with new services such as Uber and Lyft, but outside of protectionism I can't see any reason why it should - technology is nearly good enough now to replace it, and in some cases probably better. If it does contin…

Most of the black cab I have taken have a also a GPS, so that's not like it is an exclusive type choice, and I wonder why people assume so. Even connected GPS are fairly bad at finding the shortest way if it means running in the other direction for a while and that happens quite often in London and Black Cab driver are quite good at making those kind of info just looking at their gps traffic info.

The knowledge is a very useful tool, and in any city, a driver with good local knowledge is what you are looking for, regardless the middleman you use. Technology is only making the trade off of using amateur bearable, and in reality the real value of Uber and others is from the rest of the service provided.

A bit like in your example - if you had to go to the bookstore to load a new book on your reader and it could only hold one book at a time, the technological superiority of even the latest generation of kindle would not make them go pass novelty items. Real value of ebook comes from the rest of the services you get from it and that's the reason why even with the shit reading experience, the first gen kindle was a success.

The anachronism here is the segregation between black cab and minicab in London and the services the legal restrictions on the services they can offer. Although, IMO, that is not nearly as bad in London as people on HN experience in other places in the world. Black cab are meant to hailed on the street, now, without booking, review or other overhead by drunk people and tourists. Some licensing restriction to make sure you get a basic level of service in those circumstances is probably acceptable. If you have time to plan a bit in advance, there is Uber and plenty of competitors that have always been freed from the restrictions.

Re: London’s Legendary Taxi-Driver Test Puts Up a Fight in the Age of GPS

#53
post #5

GPS routing is awful compared to a person who knows their way around a city. Uber drivers in hilly cities like San Francisco never, ever think to avoid climbing right up and down the steepest hills - the algorithms don't tell them not to, there's no traffic and it's not a low speed limit , it just sucks for other reasons. I had a driver last week who had never heard of Valencia St, and then misunderstood the GPS voic…

In relation to your comment about the review: If anything less than 5 stars is unsatisfactory in Uber's eyes, why do they even have stars? If the rating is boolean anyway (5-stars or not-5-stars), then just put a single choice: Was this ride satisfactory? It shouldn't be my responsibility to know that rating a driver who was slightly late or slightly lost 4 stars is a Bad Thing. However, if you ask me whether that sa…

One argument for the resolution is a perception as to whether the ride is improving or not - a binary indication of this will only tell you that you've gotten to the best ride, whereas a scale will, over the course of time, show improvement or detriment (subject to the different standards of the rider). Also, one person's "satisfactory" might not be another's, so having a range to select from will provide a much richer piece of feedback capable of being weighted than a simple yes/no.

Re: London’s Legendary Taxi-Driver Test Puts Up a Fight in the Age of GPS

#54

Here in Brooklyn car services seem to have lost the ability to navigate the city in just a few years. You used to be able to call a car service, have a car show up in 5 minutes, and they'd get there with just the cross streets. Now most often the first question is "what's the address so I can put it into my GPS", even with metered cabs. I've been yelled at for asking to take routes that the GPS doesn't suggest, even…

There are more people than ever in Brooklyn and they are more affluent demanding cabs around an otherwise poorly navigable borough. Some days, weekends and inclement weather, they can't keep up with demand and it takes forever to get a goddamn cab. Also New Yorkers have a "just want" attitude and would rather have rude, un-knowledgeable cabbies than less cabbies.

And who cares if the cabbie doesn't like you. It's your right to demand an exact route as long as you're staying in the city. Tell him you're calling 311 and don't tip.

Re: London’s Legendary Taxi-Driver Test Puts Up a Fight in the Age of GPS

#55
post #5

GPS routing is awful compared to a person who knows their way around a city. Uber drivers in hilly cities like San Francisco never, ever think to avoid climbing right up and down the steepest hills - the algorithms don't tell them not to, there's no traffic and it's not a low speed limit , it just sucks for other reasons. I had a driver last week who had never heard of Valencia St, and then misunderstood the GPS voic…

In relation to your comment about the review: If anything less than 5 stars is unsatisfactory in Uber's eyes, why do they even have stars? If the rating is boolean anyway (5-stars or not-5-stars), then just put a single choice: Was this ride satisfactory? It shouldn't be my responsibility to know that rating a driver who was slightly late or slightly lost 4 stars is a Bad Thing. However, if you ask me whether that sa…

Hmmm... are you supposed to rate 5-stars for acceptable service? I've been rating 3 by default - then plus or minus depending on extraordinary things.

Re: London’s Legendary Taxi-Driver Test Puts Up a Fight in the Age of GPS

#56
post #5

GPS routing is awful compared to a person who knows their way around a city. Uber drivers in hilly cities like San Francisco never, ever think to avoid climbing right up and down the steepest hills - the algorithms don't tell them not to, there's no traffic and it's not a low speed limit , it just sucks for other reasons. I had a driver last week who had never heard of Valencia St, and then misunderstood the GPS voic…

Mapkin is doing this actually.

They let users crowd-source their own directions, along with much better turn-by-turn descriptions too. Eg, "turn sharp right just after the firehouse, go past the field and make a left just before the baseball field". Instead of "turn right, keep left and turn left".

https://mapkin.co

Re: London’s Legendary Taxi-Driver Test Puts Up a Fight in the Age of GPS

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tracking, aggregating and analyzing thousands of users with slightly varied destinations, focuses (less traffic, faster, scenic), and signals is not exactly what I'd consider trivial...

It's not a terribly hard job actually. I worked for a startup in 2004 that was doing this with haulage companies. We had 8000 data points moving around the UK coming in via GPRS and 3rd parties, traffic information aggregated and routing and mapping data, pick up corridors and event data. It was (bar the web front end) a relatively modest sub-30kloc chunk of C++. Now the scale is different but in 10 years, the proble…

30kloc is not a trivial problem, that's a year's worth of programming.

I also love this:

the problem isn't necessarily much more complicated, just larger

If a programmer ever said this to me, it'd be a massive red flag that the estimate they're about to give me is going to be very wrong.

Re: London’s Legendary Taxi-Driver Test Puts Up a Fight in the Age of GPS

#58
post #5

GPS routing is awful compared to a person who knows their way around a city. Uber drivers in hilly cities like San Francisco never, ever think to avoid climbing right up and down the steepest hills - the algorithms don't tell them not to, there's no traffic and it's not a low speed limit , it just sucks for other reasons. I had a driver last week who had never heard of Valencia St, and then misunderstood the GPS voic…

Well I drive around London a lot during the day time (inside CC zone) and Google Maps is pretty damn good on Android. I did a few years in taxis but owning a car that is CC exempt is cheaper including parking in NCP holes. Part of the reason its cheaper is after some experience driving around the city, you realise that at least half the taxi drivers are taking the piss. "the knowledge" is imminently replaceable by te…

Wow, you're really calling a course of study that usually takes 3-4 years to complete a "party trick" because it's replaceable by technology? By that reasoning, isn't any job any of us have on this forum also replaceable by sufficient technology?

Anyway, back on topic, "the knowledge" also covers alternative routes for road closures. I've usually been pretty impressed by black cabs. They know obscure little streets on the opposite side of town. Rarely have to give instructions. Compared to NYC where cabbies ask me how to get somewhere.

Re: London’s Legendary Taxi-Driver Test Puts Up a Fight in the Age of GPS

#59
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a trivial problem. Track how anyone with a smartphone and your app on it moves around the city. Aggregate which paths they choose and which turn out to be faster / better. Then propose those paths to other users asking for routing instructions. I work on a software for routing deliveries ( https://www.fleetnavi.com ), and although we don't have this functionality built into the platform yet, it's the first thin…

Waze claims to do something like and it produces the most retardedly slow routes ever. I just hate it when someone uses Waze on my Lyft because I just know I'll take 10 minutes more. I don't think it's as trivial because there are lots of things to consider. Some drivers are just SLOW and it will have nothing to do with traffic. Maybe all slow/terrible drivers use your app so all the route speed information is comple…

I'm amused that the phrase "uses Waze on my Lyft" is apparently self explanatory to this target audience. Clearly I am getting old and out of touch.

Re: London’s Legendary Taxi-Driver Test Puts Up a Fight in the Age of GPS

#60
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not completely replaceable by technology. Once I had gotten a text from my wife as to where to meet her for dinner with friends. She didn't know the restaurant name, and had gotten the street name wrong. I just read the text to my London black cab driver, he asked me: "Did you mean XXX restaurant on [correct street name]?" (Note: there were multiple restaurants on the street). And sure enough, he was 100% correc…

That's probably not "The Knowledge"; that's just some local experience and the fact that it's a high probability someone is going from that precise restaurant quite often. I myself have drunkenly hailed many a taxi outside dodgy restaurants in London. Unlicensed minicabs are pretty good at that too. Conversely, got a taxi from Angel to Leyton and the idiot went via Poplar and the A13 and the journey cost me £55 for a…

The knowledge is not only the streets, they also have to memorise "points of interest" which includes things like pubs and restaurants.
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