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Police allow car break-ins to become a Seattle growth industry

seattletimes.com

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Re: Police allow car break-ins to become a Seattle growth industry

#51

Post by PhantomGremlin »

jmspring wrote: post #35

Washington is a conceal carry friendly state, I wonder how reporting an attempt at a citizens arrest would have changed the situation. Here in Santa Cruz we have a very high property/lifestyle crime problem, thankfully the PD haven't given up, but the courts have made things here basically catch and release. The story basically comes down to laziness on the part of the police. Seattle doesn't have the budget problems…

> Washington is a conceal carry friendly state, I wonder how reporting an attempt at a citizens arrest would have changed the situation.

I'm a big believer in the Second Amendment. It's not about duck hunting. And in an ideal world what you suggest would be OK.

HOWEVER, we don't live in an ideal world. So IMO concealed carry is now about personal protection and not about retrieving stolen iPhones.

Re: Police allow car break-ins to become a Seattle growth industry

#52

Post by PhantomGremlin »

randallsquared wrote: post #27
Sonicmouse wrote: post #19

If it were a celebrity or any other high-profile citizen, you know they would bring out the SWAT team and the criminals would be locked up for 20 years. But, when it's a "nobody important" tax paying citizen, then go f-yourself. Congrats goes out to everyone who voted in the current representatives. Wonderful job.

Do you really believe that voting in team A instead of team B would have helped ordinary citizens?

Yes, I believe that our republic is strengthened if, occasionally, "throw the bums out" occurs. Even if it results in "meet the new boss, same as the old boss".

Re: Police allow car break-ins to become a Seattle growth industry

#53

Post by raldi »

BadassFractal wrote: post #38
panarky wrote: post #24

Take care of the small stuff and the big stuff will take care of itself. The broken windows theory is a criminological theory of the norm-setting and signaling effect of urban disorder and vandalism on additional crime and anti-social behavior. The theory states that maintaining and monitoring urban environments in a well-ordered condition may stop further vandalism and escalation into more serious crime[1]. From the…

Just yesterday in the civic center area here in SF I'm getting a sandwich and this mentally ill (or really high, or both) bum lady walks into the shop and proceeds to howl at the top of her lungs for 10 minutes, dance around the shop, kick down a bunch of seats. Right next to her is a hole in the wall punched by some other mentally infirm person that same day. Nothing. The staff is used to it, I'm used to it, the oth…

> What am I supposed to do as a resident?

Vote to repeal Prop 13 when the opportunity arises, and tell others to do the same.

At some point, polling will indicate that it has a chance of happening, and then someone will put it on the ballot.

Re: Police allow car break-ins to become a Seattle growth industry

#54

Post by BadassFractal »

na85 wrote: post #48
BadassFractal wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just yesterday in the civic center area here in SF I'm getting a sandwich and this mentally ill (or really high, or both) bum lady walks into the shop and proceeds to howl at the top of her lungs for 10 minutes, dance around the shop, kick down a bunch of seats. Right next to her is a hole in the wall punched by some other mentally infirm person that same day. Nothing. The staff is used to it, I'm used to it, the oth…

Are you suggesting that the police need to intervene if someone is howling at the top of their lungs and kicking seats? Did they do any damage? Your attitude is the reason people with mental health issues often are reluctant to seek help. Because they are stigmatized, and mental health is quickly becoming criminalized.

Unnecessary staw man, you're putting words in my mouth, I did not ask for a police intervention or criminalization. I'm happy for this situation to be resolved in whatever most humane and compassionate way possible. I'm in no position to propose solutions, as I don't have any expertise in this field.

I would however love to feel safe when being outside of my apartment, instead of wondering if one of these dozens of visibly infirm people I pass by on the way to anything is about to assault me or do something else completely unpredictable to me.

Re: Police allow car break-ins to become a Seattle growth industry

#55

Post by Chevalier »

jjoonathan wrote: post #37
Chevalier wrote: post #15

I really hate to see blind hatred for the police on HN. It's a tough goddamn job, people, made all the more so by political pressure to improve statistics. As pointed out elsewhere in this thread, police are forced to focus on serious crimes and solvable crimes and avoid minor and unsolvable crimes. Nobody wants it to work that way, but departments are hammered when they bring down crime stats. This story is pretty o…

> blind hatred for the police Reactions to a detailed first person account are "blind"? What, pray tell, is your standard of acceptable sources for a debate? > I understand why cops are leery of having citizens pursue and enforce vigilante justice. 1. The victim of theft did not "enforce vigilante justice" even when the police refused to help him. 2. The victim of theft did not propose enforcing vigilante justice at…

Sorry, but you're either deliberately or negligently misinterpreting my post.

The cops ordered the author to stop pursuing the thieves, for fear of a shootout. They were not themselves afraid of shooting the thieves. The author seems to be quite correct in all his actions, and his anger is appropriate. The cops should have pursued his case, and their failure to do so is wrong.

However, scan this thread for idiotic kneejerk reactions to the very existence of police. It may be fashionable to despise cops, but it's pretty damn stupid to hate the very thin blue line between you and truly awful people.

Villainizing the profession is seems to be an emotional outlet for white guilt and class resentment. All most cops want from their jobs is a peaceful world where criminals don't run riot through decent people.

Seattle PD failed to do their jobs in this case, and should step up enforcement of possible car break-ins -- but then the next HN story will be that cops are racist because they arrested felons for having car theft tools. Cops can't win.

Re: Police allow car break-ins to become a Seattle growth industry

#56

Post by raldi »

x0x0 wrote: post #30
panarky wrote: post #24

Take care of the small stuff and the big stuff will take care of itself. The broken windows theory is a criminological theory of the norm-setting and signaling effect of urban disorder and vandalism on additional crime and anti-social behavior. The theory states that maintaining and monitoring urban environments in a well-ordered condition may stop further vandalism and escalation into more serious crime[1]. From the…

sf is the same -- the city is a dump, and people there tolerate a level of misbehavior from the street trash that is stunning. One of them attempted to kill my so by chasing her around a parked car with a screwdriver trying to stab her while a bunch of sf asshole pedestrians crossed the street to avoid getting involved. In the middle of the afternoon. We came from nyc and stuff like this -- and it's far from the only…

New York can also manage to win a World Series without allowing the city to be taken over for the night by violent, destructive mobs. That's because they have a much better funded, and well-run, police force.

Re: Police allow car break-ins to become a Seattle growth industry

#57

Post by crashedsnow »

na85 wrote: post #48
BadassFractal wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just yesterday in the civic center area here in SF I'm getting a sandwich and this mentally ill (or really high, or both) bum lady walks into the shop and proceeds to howl at the top of her lungs for 10 minutes, dance around the shop, kick down a bunch of seats. Right next to her is a hole in the wall punched by some other mentally infirm person that same day. Nothing. The staff is used to it, I'm used to it, the oth…

Are you suggesting that the police need to intervene if someone is howling at the top of their lungs and kicking seats? Did they do any damage? Your attitude is the reason people with mental health issues often are reluctant to seek help. Because they are stigmatized, and mental health is quickly becoming criminalized.

I don't think so. I think they're suggesting that there is a torrent of cash pouring into the city's coffers and negative progress to show for it. It's either systemic corruption, or incompetence on a galactic scale. Either way I agree. I want my money back.

Re: Police allow car break-ins to become a Seattle growth industry

#58

Post by vezzy-fnord »

Chevalier wrote: post #31
vonklaus wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blind hatred for police seems to stem from experience. My father said once (after I had a particularly horrible, and unfair besting, by the police) that I had no respect for the police because I had never been in a situation where I had seen heroism, or been helped. The police have never stopped a robber from burgling my house, or stopped a violent crime from happening to me or anyone I know. The point is, that anecd…

By comparison, have you ever had a really positive experience with the dentist? Like cops, they're there to solve painful problems that cause very unhappy memories. Anything that compels you to visit the dentist (or the police to visit you) is not going to be associated with positive forces. It's a tough job to recruit for, since so many people hate you: 1) Minorities hate you, since an overwhelming proportion of cri…

By comparison, have you ever had a really positive experience with the dentist?

Not the OP, but yes. All the time, in fact. Then there's also the crucial difference that going to a dentist is a voluntary exchange, whereas being stopped and frisked by police is an unsolicited act of aggression no matter how you put it.

...successful crime prevention means locking up our families and neighbors

Hardly. Locking up families and neighbors is the exact opposite of crime prevention. It's treating the aftermath. Crime prevention should be analogous to preventative medicine: minimizing the possibility of it occurring to begin with.

Police by definition are reactionary agents. They don't have the competence or the will to do anything other than handle aftermaths and create intimidation in a dubiously effective attempt to scare off bad guys.

This isn't to say there aren't bad cops, but they're a tiny minority of all cops and largely reflect their communities.

Pareto principle: 20% of people do 80% of the work, or in this case make most of the difference. It's also the reason why "Not all -ists are like that" arguments don't work: they fail to realize that minorities in an in-group can still be highly influential and destructive.

Isn't it weird how there are no bad Canadian or Swedish cops?

They aren't typically covered in international media. You don't see any bad Serbian cops too often, either. Do they not exist?

Re: Police allow car break-ins to become a Seattle growth industry

#59

Post by [deleted] »

BadassFractal wrote: post #38
panarky wrote: post #24

Take care of the small stuff and the big stuff will take care of itself. The broken windows theory is a criminological theory of the norm-setting and signaling effect of urban disorder and vandalism on additional crime and anti-social behavior. The theory states that maintaining and monitoring urban environments in a well-ordered condition may stop further vandalism and escalation into more serious crime[1]. From the…

Just yesterday in the civic center area here in SF I'm getting a sandwich and this mentally ill (or really high, or both) bum lady walks into the shop and proceeds to howl at the top of her lungs for 10 minutes, dance around the shop, kick down a bunch of seats. Right next to her is a hole in the wall punched by some other mentally infirm person that same day. Nothing. The staff is used to it, I'm used to it, the oth…

[deleted]

Re: Police allow car break-ins to become a Seattle growth industry

#60

Post by DanBC »

BadassFractal wrote: post #54
na85 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting that the police need to intervene if someone is howling at the top of their lungs and kicking seats? Did they do any damage? Your attitude is the reason people with mental health issues often are reluctant to seek help. Because they are stigmatized, and mental health is quickly becoming criminalized.

Unnecessary staw man, you're putting words in my mouth, I did not ask for a police intervention or criminalization. I'm happy for this situation to be resolved in whatever most humane and compassionate way possible. I'm in no position to propose solutions, as I don't have any expertise in this field. I would however love to feel safe when being outside of my apartment, instead of wondering if one of these dozens of v…

People with a mental health problem are far more likely to be the victims, not perpetrators, of violence.

Most violent crime is not committed by people with a mental illness.

While I appreciate the concern you show for the piss-poor inhumane brutal lack of treatment your country provides to those with a mental illness (despite spending more per capita on health) it'd be nice if you could do it without stigmatising mental ill-health.

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