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A Natural Fix for A.D.H.D.?

nytimes.com

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Re: A Natural Fix for A.D.H.D.?

#51

Post by warfangle »

barsonme wrote: post #3

I'd say one of the causes for over-medication is the lack of willingness of both parents and children to work on ways to succeed without use of medication. I have (fairly bad) ADHD and my doctor did give me medicine, but only half the light dosage of Strattera, which isn't a stimulant. Long story short, I ended up hating feeling comatose from the medicine so much I began to work through my ADHD by structuring my life…

Strattera usually isn't the first drug chosen, because it doesn't work for everyone. It primarily works on norepinephrine as a reuptake inhibitor. It's basically in the same class as bupropion (which is sometimes also prescribed off label for ADHD, though it's usually used as an antidepressant for those with cyclothymia or to aid in smoking cessation).

Ritalin works by inhibiting the re-uptake of dopamine and norepinephrine.

Amphetamine (adderal) works on dopamine, norepinephrine and seratonin. Not only is it a re-uptake inhibitor, but it actually "reverses the polarity" on neuron vesicles, causing them to dump their loads.

For some with ADHD, strattera works just fine. For others, strattera will make them feel like a zombie (or do nothing at all), while as little as 5mg of amphetamine salts a day will be sufficient.

A lot of folks with ADHD do just fine without medication. And others struggle with the thought of taking "the easy way out" for decades, and end up with a shitload of additional problems - primarily in the self confidence zone. Some only need the medication to get things back on track, establish routines and so forth ... but others really do need it.

Chronically untreated ADHD is painful, debilitating, embarrassing, and so unnecessary.

Re: A Natural Fix for A.D.H.D.?

#52

Post by jamesisaac »

ahknight wrote: post #25
jamesisaac wrote: post #18

This is pretty much the same approach I took to largely overcome ADHD-like symptoms. I happen to believe that, if you've fallen into a routine, it's time to re-evaluate, anyway - so the tactic of engineering a more stimulating environment seems like a great idea regardless.

> overcome ADHD-like symptoms First, good for you -- really! Second, it's very important in discussions like this to qualify the target audience. A LOT of people have SOME of the symptoms, even to levels that impair their lives. NOT a lot of those people have full-blown ADHD. If you have SOME symptoms and things like that help you, that's fantastic. In my direct and social experiences, however, those with clinical AD…

I realise there are others that likely have much more severe manifestations of the symptoms than me, but I don't think it's quite as black and white as you're making out. Surely the line you describe as "full-blown clinical ADHD" is somewhat arbitrary, when the symptoms exist on a spectrum?

I didn't attempt to get myself diagnosed, but yes, it was a significant impairment towards my life, and yes, there still is quite a negative impairment. If I wanted to get routine tasks done with any kind of consistency, I may well have to look into medication.

But instead, I structured my life around a very diverse range of stimulating past-times, and set myself up with very few obligations (e.g. no employer). This leaves a lifestyle of jumping between stimulating and challenging activities, which allows me to be a lot more productive, and achieve much more, than I ever did when I was in formal education or working a repetitive office job.

> In my direct and social experiences, however, those with clinical ADHD diagnoses are assisted with such suggestions, but very rarely do they improve things to the point that there is no longer a significant impairment to that person's life.

How far did they take the suggestions? Did they quit their job and start their own startup? While I agree that medication is probably the best solution for certain types of lifestyle, I do think adjusting one's environment is an underrated and underexplored solution, that could do with more research.

Re: A Natural Fix for A.D.H.D.?

#53

Post by ahknight »

furyofantares wrote: post #49
ahknight wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nailed it. But do yourself a favor and don't self-label. Go talk to a professional for a while and see what their take is. By which I mean an LCW or psychologist, not a GP. :)

LCW?

Licensed Clinical Worker. Therapist.

Re: A Natural Fix for A.D.H.D.?

#55

Post by ahknight »

jamesisaac wrote: post #52
ahknight wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> overcome ADHD-like symptoms First, good for you -- really! Second, it's very important in discussions like this to qualify the target audience. A LOT of people have SOME of the symptoms, even to levels that impair their lives. NOT a lot of those people have full-blown ADHD. If you have SOME symptoms and things like that help you, that's fantastic. In my direct and social experiences, however, those with clinical AD…

I realise there are others that likely have much more severe manifestations of the symptoms than me, but I don't think it's quite as black and white as you're making out. Surely the line you describe as "full-blown clinical ADHD" is somewhat arbitrary, when the symptoms exist on a spectrum? I didn't attempt to get myself diagnosed, but yes, it was a significant impairment towards my life, and yes, there still is quit…

> Did they quit their job and start their own startup?

They forget to shave and flush the toilet, so no. When I mean full-blown clinical ADHD I don't mean interrupting people and being unable to finish a coding project on time. I mean "gets fired from Mickey D's for randomly staring at the walls". Inattentiveness on a scale that's not being discussed in this article or this thread.

Perhaps I feel so strongly about all of this because I've attended group sessions with non-tech people that are truly suffering because of this thing and I don't have any way of bridging the understanding gap with mere comments on a website. This is a difficult malady for those in tech. Outside of tech? It's sink or doggy paddle, and when you sink there's a whole ocean under you, not a swimming pool.

Re: A Natural Fix for A.D.H.D.?

#56

Post by toodles1234 »

pulkitpulkit wrote: post #5

Interesting that the article goes down the route of providing more stimulus to help treat ADHD.. wonder if there's also a case for reducing our need for more stimuli (e.g. with mindfulness or meditation) or whether that's just too against the grain of how we are moving as a society (in to a more digital, multi-tasked world)

> wonder if there's also a case for reducing our need for more stimuli (e.g. with mindfulness or meditation)

A study was done in Australia ten years ago on a type of meditation that encourages you to be more mindful to see what effect it can have on ADHD. Children were able to reduce or even cut out their medication completely after completing the meditation program.

http://ccp.sagepub.com/content/9/4/479.abstract

http://www.m.sahajayogaportal.org/papers/manocha.pdf (non-paywall link)

Re: A Natural Fix for A.D.H.D.?

#58

Post by dasmithii »

ahknight wrote: post #54
dasmithii wrote: post #46

Here's an audio snippet of Alan Watt's perspective on this issue. In general, he sees modern mental illnesses as personality traits. Thoughts? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN8B8jMuDZE

Willfully ignorant of science.

How so?

Watts doesn't deny the differences between those affected by ADHD and those who are not. He argues that these differences are best understood as personality traits and not products of an affliction.

This isn't a matter of ignorance, but interpretation of and reaction to scientific discoveries.

Re: A Natural Fix for A.D.H.D.?

#59

Post by ahknight »

dasmithii wrote: post #37
trippy_biscuits wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have a short attention span and I'm not hyperactive. I spend a lot of time thinking about things. I deduce things noticeably faster than my peers as long as it's not socially related. I have intense focus as long as something remains stimulating. When things lose my interest or are pointless they become tedious and it's not about attention span. I cannot stop worrying about assigned tasks to the point of anxi…

> "I don't have a short attention span and I'm not hyperactive" I thought these were the defining characteristics of ADHD? I'm sorry, please forgive my lack of familiarity. > "When things lose my interest or are pointless they become tedious"... I don't understand how this is considered a symptom of anything. To me, this is entirely normal. Things that you aren't interested in should be tedious. The mental barrier yo…

You speak with the world view of a neurotypical human. I'm happy for you.

For the perspective of the broken toys in the box, let me explain. :)

When an NT is asked to do a boring, repetitive task, he'll do it for eight hours and then get drunk afterwards to recover. Good job.

When an ADHD-afflicted individual is asked to do a boring, repetitive task, he'll do it for about five minutes and then spend eight hours trying to find a way to not do it again. Or stare at the wall. Or berate himself for not working. Or rack up a disabling level of anxiety because he's not working.

You present this as something everyone does, and you're right to. The disorder comes in when someone cannot do it. Not that the person will not muster some internal whatever to push on, but that the person's brain is physically incapable of doing it. The same kind of incapable as a major depressive being incapable of talking himself out of an anxiety-induced depression.

When it's a disorder, it's a disorder. The problem is that so many people see the high numbers of people being diagnosed and write it off as a fad. It's not. Maybe the numbers are high and some are being misdiagnosed, or maybe we're learning about all the edge cases. I don't know. I do know it exists and it's an impairment and it goes well beyond basic motivation.

I've had "do it or you're fired" moments where THAT wasn't enough to motivate me, and I had a very real fear of being unemployed.

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