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U.N.C. Investigation Reveals ‘Shadow Curriculum’ to Help Athletes

nytimes.com

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Re: U.N.C. Investigation Reveals ‘Shadow Curriculum’ to Help Athletes

#51

Post by vinceguidry »

differentView wrote: post #40
rrrx3 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that they're being exploited. Choose to go to class or not, they are not being paid anything remotely close to the value that these schools get from them in terms of team gear sales, ad revenue, tv time, increased enrollment, etc etc etc. This is especially true when they're turning in BS papers for crap degrees that can't and won't serve them once they leave school. A minuscule few make it pro. The re…

>they are not being paid anything remotely close to the value that these schools get from them in terms of team gear sales, ad revenue, tv time, increased enrollment, etc etc etc. This is true for only a very small percentage of college athletes. Most college sports don't generate a lot of money for their schools. Even the most popular sports, men's football and men's basketball, generate big money for a minority of…

Let's look at it another way. 40 out of 50 states' highest paid public employee is a head football or basketball coach.

Re: U.N.C. Investigation Reveals ‘Shadow Curriculum’ to Help Athletes

#52

Post by ericboggs »

UNC grad here. These "paper" classes were very well known when I was an undergrad.

Your university almost certainly had similar classes that were very easy and required very little attendance...and were always full of athletes and lazy seniors looking to pump up their GPA.

You can't fault the students (athletes or otherwise) for finding a shortcut in the system and then exploiting it. It is the university's responsibility to quality control its curriculum.

Re: U.N.C. Investigation Reveals ‘Shadow Curriculum’ to Help Athletes

#53

Post by Retric »

jordanpg wrote: post #39
cellis wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Playing sports at the highest levels is an academic activity, it's just not recognized as an academic activity today. You definitely have to study, recognize patterns, solve problems, etc. Just not so much reading books and writing papers.

> reading books and writing papers. So you'd argue that football is an intellectual pursuit in the same sense that math, physics, philosophy, or history is? That study of the nuts and bolts of the game is worthy of the attention of our finest minds (as a discipline unto itself)? The "reading books and writing papers" you mention is a severe and tragic distortion of why universities exist. It has little to do with the…

It's at least on par with, literature, music, philosophy, history, sociology, psychology, art, or any other "soft" subjects lacking of direct impact on people's lives. It's held to a higher standard than economics, but has less impact.

As to math I would argue it's more meaningful than say topology, but less than other branches.

Re: U.N.C. Investigation Reveals ‘Shadow Curriculum’ to Help Athletes

#54

Post by redraga »

European football (soccer) teams run academies of their own to groom players. If a youngster is serious about becoming a professional footballer, he/she joins these academies. They are given a "well-rounded" education, but the emphasis is obviously on the sport. Graduates end being signed by the parent club, or getting contracts with lower-level teams if they can make the cut.

I'm curious to understand why this system isn't practiced in the US.

Re: U.N.C. Investigation Reveals ‘Shadow Curriculum’ to Help Athletes

#55

Post by eitally »

Chevalier wrote: post #48

Honestly, doesn't this make anyone wonder what the point is of college in the first place? Even without the equivalent of special ed courses, it's not like most (any?) athletes study STEM courses that might require university certification. Literally the only point of their enrollment is to make money for the school, then shuffle off with a communications degree and work in a shoe store the rest of their lives. Yes,…

I mostly disagree with your premise. This is a problem that only really afflicts two college sports: football & basketball, which are not coincidentally the only revenue sports at most schools. Most student-athletes take academics as seriously as their sport(s), and I think the fact that American colleges & universities offer top quality athletic programs as well as academic educations one of the best things about them.

That said, football & basketball are completely out of hand, not to mention the playoff/BCS/NCAA Tournament system, TV/media rights, and the insanity of one-and-done feeder systems into the NBA (I'm looking at you, Kentucky!). Those athletes should be paid and they should potentially be employed by the colleges as athletes completely separately from any academic matriculation.

Re: U.N.C. Investigation Reveals ‘Shadow Curriculum’ to Help Athletes

#56

Post by eitally »

Chevalier wrote: post #48

Honestly, doesn't this make anyone wonder what the point is of college in the first place? Even without the equivalent of special ed courses, it's not like most (any?) athletes study STEM courses that might require university certification. Literally the only point of their enrollment is to make money for the school, then shuffle off with a communications degree and work in a shoe store the rest of their lives. Yes,…

I mostly disagree with your premise. This is a problem that only really afflicts two college sports: football & basketball, which are not coincidentally the only revenue sports at most schools. Most student-athletes take academics as seriously as their sport(s), and I think the fact that American colleges & universities offer top quality athletic programs as well as academic educations one of the best things about them.

That said, football & basketball are completely out of hand, not to mention the playoff/BCS/NCAA Tournament system, TV/media rights, and the insanity of one-and-done feeder systems into the NBA (I'm looking at you, Kentucky!). Those athletes should be paid and they should potentially be employed by the colleges as athletes completely separately from any academic matriculation.

Re: U.N.C. Investigation Reveals ‘Shadow Curriculum’ to Help Athletes

#57

Post by rodgerd »

mbreese wrote: post #35
rrrx3 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that they're being exploited. Choose to go to class or not, they are not being paid anything remotely close to the value that these schools get from them in terms of team gear sales, ad revenue, tv time, increased enrollment, etc etc etc. This is especially true when they're turning in BS papers for crap degrees that can't and won't serve them once they leave school. A minuscule few make it pro. The re…

Well, they are getting compensation in terms of free tuition, room and board, etc... these things do have significant value. If they complete school, they get to walk away with a degree without any debt. That's not trivial. However , the athletes are only able to actualize this compensation if they can freely choose their majors, are able to take the classes they want, and actually earn their education. By creating a…

> Well, they are getting compensation in terms of free tuition, room and board, etc... these things do have significant value.

Compare and contrast with the money an 18-21 year old second team player at Real Madrid or Barcelona makes and get back to me on the "significant value". Especially when the athletes are being funneled through second-rate degrees to free up their time for sport.

Re: U.N.C. Investigation Reveals ‘Shadow Curriculum’ to Help Athletes

#58

Post by eitally »

ericboggs wrote: post #52

UNC grad here. These "paper" classes were very well known when I was an undergrad. Your university almost certainly had similar classes that were very easy and required very little attendance...and were always full of athletes and lazy seniors looking to pump up their GPA. You can't fault the students (athletes or otherwise) for finding a shortcut in the system and then exploiting it. It is the university's responsib…

Agree 100%. And -- even if they took "real" classes, all the high profile athletes have private tutors, too, who may well do a large portion of their work for them.

Re: U.N.C. Investigation Reveals ‘Shadow Curriculum’ to Help Athletes

#59

Post by philwelch »

ilamont wrote: post #47
alistairSH wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the case of American football, skipping college isn't an option. The NFL doesn't recruit out of high school, so a player's only option is to do 3-4 years indentured servitude at an NCAA institution.

Maybe professional sports should change the way they recruit, and leave academic institutions out of the picture. The NFL has enough money to set up a more extensive farm league system, or maybe they could have a junior league based on smaller cities? FWIW, I have heard of the NBA showing interest in kids in high school. I am not sure if they actually recruited any of them, though.

The NBA currently disallows drafting players straight out of high school, but for a decently long era it was allowed and a lot of the biggest stars who entered the NBA at that time were drafted from high school, including Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, and Kevin Garnett.

Re: U.N.C. Investigation Reveals ‘Shadow Curriculum’ to Help Athletes

#60

Post by qq66 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #11
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #5

Why is every semi-pro athlete expected to get a decent GPA in order to play on a university's football team? It's a completely different skillset. I don't blame players for ditching classes to pursue their dreams. Quite the opposite, in fact. It's the same drive as an entrepreneur's: to test yourself, to excel. It's just a different context. They are adults. If, as adults, they choose not to pursue academic studies,…

> Why is every semi-pro athlete expected to get a decent GPA in order to play on a university's football team? Because there are semi-pro teams and university teams, and the two things are not the same thing. > If, as adults, they choose not to pursue academic studies, and instead choose to focus all of their energy on sports, then they should be allowed to do that without putting their sports career at risk. Sure, a…

They're not really playing sports at an academic institution... they're playing sports for a business that's got a joint branding contract with an academic institution.
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