Things I Won't Work With: Peroxide Peroxides • Hacker News Board

Re: Things I Won't Work With: Peroxide Peroxides

#51

Post by refurb » Sat, Oct 11, 2014, 7:38 PM UTC

ajb wrote: post #45

chrisbennet wrote: post #36

How to Blow Up Your Kitchen With Hydrogen Peroxide. A few years ago, upon returning home after work, my my wife told me that her mother had blown blown up her kitchen but that she was OK. (My late mother-in-law was a wonderful person BTW.) I can be prone to inattention when my wife speaks to me but this, this got my attention. :-) My mother in law was an antique dealer. To restore/bleach old china, she would put some…

That is really cool. Any chemists care to comment on why the peroxide would explode in the microwave but not the oven?

http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/login.jsp?tp=&arnumber=166634...

These guy tested the decomposition of hydrogen peroxide across a range of microwave frequencies.

Since hydrogen peroxide decomposes when heated, I'm guessing it's just due to the microwaves heating the mixture.

Re: Things I Won't Work With: Peroxide Peroxides

#52

Post by technofiend » Sat, Oct 11, 2014, 11:33 PM UTC

Robin_Message wrote: post #28

ridgeguy wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fluorine can be so dramatic. I witnessed a test of a small (500 lb thrust) H2/F2 rocket engine. The fuel & oxidizer were fed into the combustion chamber with small turbo pumps, which was the point of the test. The native fluoride protective coating failed in the F2 turbo pump, and there was an explosion with subsequent metal/fluorine fire. Blockhouse sealed off and we all grabbed the Scott packs as a yellowish cloud…

I'm intrigued: what's a Scott pack? Is is just breathing apparatus? But since the gas cloud is setting organic matter on fire surely you'd need more than that? Or is it just a good pair of running shoes?

Scott makes a variety of Self Contained Breathing Apparatus (SCBA) devices. Mostly you see them used by fire-fighters, but Scott offers chemical industry and oil and gas variants. Check out their SCBA offerings here: https://www.scottsafety.com/en/us/Pages/ProductSeries.aspx?P...

I'm with you on needing more than that: anecdotally I was once advised to use an air filter plus nose clip in case of any accidental releases. I asked "Uh, like what?" "Oh, ammonia, that sort of thing." Needless to say if ammonia was released and it got to me I'd be blind anyway. :shrug: So based on entirely anecdotal experience I'd say yeah it's to hopefully help you run away. :-)

Re: Things I Won't Work With: Peroxide Peroxides

#53

Post by jerf » Sat, Oct 11, 2014, 11:57 PM UTC

CamperBob2 wrote: post #47

jerf wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. Be sure to click through: http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/things_i_wont_work_with...

This is very bad advice if you have anything else you need to do today.

On the other hand, It Might Just Save Your Life!

... though one hopes that if you were planning on doing anything for which that would save your life that you'd already have a good idea of just how likely your day was to be spent dodging rapidly moving glassware. But hey, great lede for my little reply here, right? If this programming thing ever gets old maybe I can get a job writing the 11 o'clock news.

Re: Things I Won't Work With: Peroxide Peroxides

#54

Post by petemc_ » Sun, Oct 12, 2014, 8:46 AM UTC

technofiend wrote: post #52

Robin_Message wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm intrigued: what's a Scott pack? Is is just breathing apparatus? But since the gas cloud is setting organic matter on fire surely you'd need more than that? Or is it just a good pair of running shoes?

Scott makes a variety of Self Contained Breathing Apparatus (SCBA) devices. Mostly you see them used by fire-fighters, but Scott offers chemical industry and oil and gas variants. Check out their SCBA offerings here: https://www.scottsafety.com/en/us/Pages/ProductSeries.aspx?P... I'm with you on needing more than that: anecdotally I was once advised to use an air filter plus nose clip in case of any accidental releas…

I've been told that some criminals like to keep ammonia in a squeeze bottle (like a jif lemon container) to be used as a weapon if necessary. Also handy that they can use it to clean their cocaine as well.

Re: Things I Won't Work With: Peroxide Peroxides

#55

Post by jgamman » Mon, Oct 13, 2014, 12:35 AM UTC

ajb wrote: post #45

chrisbennet wrote: post #36

How to Blow Up Your Kitchen With Hydrogen Peroxide. A few years ago, upon returning home after work, my my wife told me that her mother had blown blown up her kitchen but that she was OK. (My late mother-in-law was a wonderful person BTW.) I can be prone to inattention when my wife speaks to me but this, this got my attention. :-) My mother in law was an antique dealer. To restore/bleach old china, she would put some…

That is really cool. Any chemists care to comment on why the peroxide would explode in the microwave but not the oven?

microwaves are at the wavelength that 'excites' / 'wobbles' / 'resonates' (pick your analogy of ball and spring physics) the O-H bond. H2O is entirely O-H bonds (give or take) and hence microwaves heat food vicariously via the water in it (heating up day old rice from the fridge is easier/better if you put a few mL of water in it). Peroxide peroxide is H-O-O-H so plenty of O-H bonds to excite and hence decompose...

Re: Things I Won't Work With: Peroxide Peroxides

#56

Post by jgamman » Mon, Oct 13, 2014, 12:44 AM UTC

bsaul wrote: post #39

I realize i barely know anything in chemistry. I have zero practical knowledge and would be almost incapable of performing any kind of chemistry exercise anymore ( yet i do have a scientific background). Anyone here could recommend a book or a serie of books to get myself into shape on that subject ?

my sincere advice (as an ex-chemist) is - don't. i suspect you'll want to do something 'fun' and 'fun chemistry' can go very bad, very quick. go fast and break things has never, never been a motto in a chemistry lab (even the dragon tail stories in the manhattan project were despite advice to the contrary).

most of a senior/PG chemistry degree is about learning how to work with this stuff and it's not book learnin' so much as translating what should happen, into what could happen and then what shouldn't ever ever ever happen. this is best done in a practical mentor-tutor fashion. even saying that, most uni's are really crap at protecting their chemistry students. I damn near killed myself _after_ getting my PhD and didn't really learn how to analyse the risks until i worked in industry (which leveraged 8+ years of theory)...