A veritable explosion of innovation is coming our way. This decentralized stock exchange is just a hint of what is to come. Technologies using bitcoin, and technologies built on bitcoin, are the next thing that will change the world. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy we're also democratizing taxi services, but democratizing finance makes me so much more excited.
Overstock.com Assembles Coders to Create a Bitcoin-Like Stock Market
51–60 of 79 posts
Re: Overstock.com Assembles Coders to Create a Bitcoin-Like Stock Market
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
Protip: If you start by saying "I do not see how", the problem may be that you are just not seeing it. One of the reasons that foreign companies list on US markets is that we have some of the strongest financial regulations in the world. A simple analogy: San Francisco has a vigorous health department, and food safety scores are posted visibly in every restaurant. Does this reduce the vibrancy of the restaurant scene…
> Because I know when a place is likely safe to eat at, I spend more money in restaurants and I'm more willing to try new places. And the inverse of this, is that if a restaurant listed food safety scores irrespective of state mandate, you would visit those restaurants more, and if most people agreed, those restaurants would prosper and those not adopting food safety scores would suffer. Except in that situation ther…
That's a fine hypothetical, but a) I know of no city where restaurants voluntarily put together such a system, and b) if each restaurant gets to pick who evaluates it, there's no particular reason for customers to trust the scores.
I also don't buy your view that the magic sparkle ponies of the market will always take care of everything. I think your approach works in theory, with infinitely smart and well informed humans. But given that we're dealing with a bunch of hairless monkeys, I think cognitive limits make it relatively easy for bad actors to push market solutions away from optimum.
Re: Overstock.com Assembles Coders to Create a Bitcoin-Like Stock Market
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
Protip: If you start by saying "I do not see how", the problem may be that you are just not seeing it. One of the reasons that foreign companies list on US markets is that we have some of the strongest financial regulations in the world. A simple analogy: San Francisco has a vigorous health department, and food safety scores are posted visibly in every restaurant. Does this reduce the vibrancy of the restaurant scene…
> Because I know when a place is likely safe to eat at, I spend more money in restaurants and I'm more willing to try new places. And the inverse of this, is that if a restaurant listed food safety scores irrespective of state mandate, you would visit those restaurants more, and if most people agreed, those restaurants would prosper and those not adopting food safety scores would suffer. Except in that situation ther…
That is such an incredibly naive view, it's hard to know what to begin with.
Voluntary food safety postings are useless, because they allow fraudulent posting. Sure, it'll come out pretty soon - but by that time people are ill or dead due to food poisoning, and the person in question is likely long gone.
"The market" doesn't give a shit if actors are fraudulent or working with good intentions, and it has no way to prevent turning an iterated situation into a one-off situation. "The market" has no idea which reviews are genuine. If you'd like to see unregulated reviews in action, look at the direction yelp is turning lately. "The market" does not guarantee that consumers are fully (or even somewhat) informed, a condition that is necessary to a market actually working properly.
> Or it would be a competitive advantage if the markets truly benefited from food safety scores for newer restaurants to advertise them where their entrenched competition does no such thing.
No, it wouldn't, because you'd have no idea if you could trust the reviews. So you'd wait a while. Sooner or later, you have a bunch of restaurants that post reviews. And then new restaurants pop up, also posting their reviews. Do you still know which ones are trustworthy and which ones aren't?
Sure, you could ask your friends. Until you travel. At which point you're at the mercy of complete strangers.
"The market" is not an almighty force for good. It allows efficient exchange of goods. If a cost is externalized - say, the hospital bill of people eating at restaurants - the market does exactly nothing about it. Because the cost is externalized.
That's the whole point of regulations. Not to be a pain in the neck, but to ensure costs are not externalized. The only way to achieve that without enforcement is a society of entirely benevolent actors. That does not exist.
Re: Overstock.com Assembles Coders to Create a Bitcoin-Like Stock Market
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Because I know when a place is likely safe to eat at, I spend more money in restaurants and I'm more willing to try new places. And the inverse of this, is that if a restaurant listed food safety scores irrespective of state mandate, you would visit those restaurants more, and if most people agreed, those restaurants would prosper and those not adopting food safety scores would suffer. Except in that situation ther…
That is such an incredibly naive view, it's hard to know what to begin with. Voluntary food safety postings are useless, because they allow fraudulent posting. Sure, it'll come out pretty soon - but by that time people are ill or dead due to food poisoning, and the person in question is likely long gone. "The market" doesn't give a shit if actors are fraudulent or working with good intentions, and it has no way to pr…
> That is such an incredibly naive view
I'm genuinely interested in what you define "the market" to be, and how you define government, and lastly regulation. Avoid circular references if you can help it.
How can you have such disdain for markets when governments are operated by a market of politicians? That sounds like the worst kind of market society has to offer.
Re: Overstock.com Assembles Coders to Create a Bitcoin-Like Stock Market
#55This is sort of the idea I've been waiting to come out of the bitcoin universe for some time now. A decentralized stock exchange seems like an obvious killer application for bitcoin. Though, the only thing I don't like about it is counterpart. Was never a fan of them, nor open transactions... Why go to the SEC? I feel like the advantage of doing something like this would be the ability to build a trading exchange wit…
It's already been trading on CMFX (one of the most reputable Forex markets around, on par with BATS or CME) against the USD for a while now. This is nothing new.
If "CMFX is one of the most reputable Forex markets around," why can't I seem to find their official website? Do you have a link?
Re: Overstock.com Assembles Coders to Create a Bitcoin-Like Stock Market
#56This is sort of the idea I've been waiting to come out of the bitcoin universe for some time now. A decentralized stock exchange seems like an obvious killer application for bitcoin. Though, the only thing I don't like about it is counterpart. Was never a fan of them, nor open transactions... Why go to the SEC? I feel like the advantage of doing something like this would be the ability to build a trading exchange wit…
I am curious how someone can come away from the last decade of Wall Street behavior and conclude the answer to the problem is less regulation.
People come away concluding that, because the problem with Wall Street is not deregulation, despite all the propaganda to the contrary. The problem was selective regulation or deregulation, whatever benefited Wall Street, as well as selective enforcement and interpretation of law. In a nut shell, Wall Street is in control and reconfigures the legal apparatus to their advantage; they don't randomly dismantle it.
Re: Overstock.com Assembles Coders to Create a Bitcoin-Like Stock Market
#57Can anyone knowledgeable (especially those that do not like bitcoin) weigh in as to why this would be a bad idea ? I'm asking this sincerely, and not being sarcasm, as I don't know enough about either Bitcoin or stock market to make a judgement. And this seems ... different enough that I'm not sure my reaction should be "damn the future is here", or "what a bunch of craps".
stealth takeovers, stealth monopolies, the fact that its unregulatable and illegal as fuck under US law
One easy solution is to force key holders to de-anonymize themselves if they want to take any shareholder actions, such as voting. This wouldn't be an issue for 99% of us - just because I own a few TSLA shares doesn't mean I'm ever going to pound my fist on Elon Musk' desk and demand something - But if someone does buy up a large portion of the corporation and tries to use it to vote - they would have to declare "Hi, I am Carl Icahn, I own the following private keys XYZ and I'm demanding that we liquidate our assets and build a giant statue to the sky" or whatever. This prevents the Taliban or Chinese hackers from seizing control of a US corporation.
Re: Overstock.com Assembles Coders to Create a Bitcoin-Like Stock Market
#58check the overstock's original website, after few seconds it was evident that I shouldn't be bothered reading the article.
Re: Overstock.com Assembles Coders to Create a Bitcoin-Like Stock Market
#59Can anyone knowledgeable (especially those that do not like bitcoin) weigh in as to why this would be a bad idea ? I'm asking this sincerely, and not being sarcasm, as I don't know enough about either Bitcoin or stock market to make a judgement. And this seems ... different enough that I'm not sure my reaction should be "damn the future is here", or "what a bunch of craps".
Unregulated financial marketplace, what could possibly go wrong?
I'm a big Bitcoin supporter mainly because of the interesting tech opportunities, but I don't like the extremist proponents to deregulation that come with Bitcoin in droves. Take a look at the posts from people who lost their families inheritance when the price drops.
Now I know it's not a level playing field, and I can spend my inheritance on forex in a few hours. I'm not saying that's a good thing, but the fact it's not a level playing field does not mean it's a green light to let these things run without any regulation at all.
People who advocate freedom from all regulation generally are in my experience wholly unsympathetic to those who suffer as a result of it, and are unable to recognise that the theory behind it all is flawed.
Re: Overstock.com Assembles Coders to Create a Bitcoin-Like Stock Market
#60I'm nitpicking, but it's bizarre to see Karl Popper being described as an "economist".