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Monit's DMCA takedown notice for Inspeqtor

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Re: Monit's DMCA takedown notice for Inspeqtor

#51

There are some very dubious claims in their DMCA takedown notice: > The work, Inspeqtor which is hosted at GitHub, is far from a “clean-room” implementation. This is basically a rewrite of Monit in Go, even using the same configuration language that is used in Monit, verbatim. There is no concept of "clean room" in copyright law, the only issue is whether or not substantial copying has occurred. While it may be easie…

Alas, there is also no concept of substantial copying in copyright law (for derivative work). The language used in Berne convention is "a work based upon one or more preexisting works".

Derivative work is not a factual statement of a work, but a narrative statement in how it came to be. It helps to look at other arts (film, books, music) in order to examine the legal theory as it is used.

Lets take a manga comic written in Japanese language, using Japanese culture in order to express a story. That is then rewritten into a movie script for an American audience, using language and culture that is familiar with that market. The two works might in the end share nothing substantial in common, but the narrative defines the movie as a derivative of the written manga.

For books, fan fiction is simply defined as derivative works. The word itself defines a narrative that do not include copying but a process which bases one work on an other.

For music, style from a couple of notes has been know as enough for derivative work to trigger. If a song provide an association of someone else song, the narrative has an implied infringement on the original work. Copying as an act is more or less completely absent from those cases.

So for all the different copyrightable arts, software seems to have the most narrow interpretation of derivative work. Look and feel was dismissed in a US court a while back, and API was thankfully also dismissed. My guess is that the beneficial effect a weaker copyright has on the software market is favored by the courts compared to the arts of films, books and music. That said, only looking at copying as the defining factor is unlikely to yield the correct conclusion. I do think inspeqtor has a decent defense. Since look and feel is not enough for software, Monit will have a uphill battle to claim a narrative that defines inspeqtor as based on Monit. The twitter statement seems to hint towards it, but a court might very likely want more to find inspeqtor guilty.

Re: Monit's DMCA takedown notice for Inspeqtor

#52

There are some very dubious claims in their DMCA takedown notice: > The work, Inspeqtor which is hosted at GitHub, is far from a “clean-room” implementation. This is basically a rewrite of Monit in Go, even using the same configuration language that is used in Monit, verbatim. There is no concept of "clean room" in copyright law, the only issue is whether or not substantial copying has occurred. While it may be easie…

There is no concept of "clean room" in copyright law

Sure there is. "Clean room" just means you have good legal evidence that you created an original work not a derivative one. It is a bit like having an alibi during a murder trial. There is no law that says you must have an alibi to not be convicted of murder, just like there is no law requiring clean room to dodge the copyright bullet, but having one is strong evidence that you are not guilty.

even APIs (see Oracle vs Google) are not protected by copyright

You need to check the news more. The Federal Circuit Court ruled APIs are copyright able, and handed it back to the lower court to rule on fair use. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/05/dangerous-ruling-oracl...

Re: Monit's DMCA takedown notice for Inspeqtor

#53
post #15
post #2

I may be wrong since IMNAL, but something is strange about this: 1) inspeqtor is written in Go and shares no code with Monit anyway. 2) The takedown claims violation of license. Licenses only apply to code, so patents and similar are out of this game. 1+2 don't stay together. How is a code license violated if the code is totally different between the two projects? I believe this is something that can be easily fixed…

Their claim is only that Inspeqtor needs to keep the previous license. We will withdraw this takedown notice if and only if [private] and Inspeqtor adhere to the GNU Affero General Public License which Monit is licensed under. This means; Our copyright notice is retained in the derivate work, and ALL the derivate work is licensed and provided to users as “open source” under the AGPL. This include the so called pro fe…

"Translating" a program from one language to another is not a straightforward mechanical process.

In US copyright law and most of the countries that adhere to the Berne Convention there is a concept of a derived work. What the legal standard is varies, usually a translation of a work of literature would qualify, but whether a "translation" of a work of software would be considered a derived work is an open question that will not be resolved without litigation.

But it certainly seems that this takedown is bogus in terms of the DMCA since it is not a copyrighted work itself, but an ( allegedly ) derived work.

It certainly looks like an attempt to misuse intellectual property law to protect a product from functional equivalents that would not otherwise be excludable from the market.

Re: Monit's DMCA takedown notice for Inspeqtor

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

re-writing an open source application in a different language is not a copyright violation. see Oracle v. Google.

That's correct only if the implementation was made without using the original implementation - for example, made off of a common specification, or using only the inputs and outputs of the application. (AKA, a "clean room" implementation) If the reimplementation was made by perusing the original, it can be considered a derivative work subject to copyright.

The clean room was argued by Google to aid with the justification, but this isn't a requirement of law. An author can read another authors work, and create a novel with similarities.

Re: Monit's DMCA takedown notice for Inspeqtor

#55
post #50
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> " I looked at rails code, so does that mean I can never write a web framework lest I be sued? " No. At most it means you might have to adhere to the license Rails uses, if your work is sufficiently related to be a derived work.

[deleted]

> "Licences do not apply to copyright,"

I'm going to stop you there and suggest that you go do some reading. Your understanding of the legal terminology is too woefully wrong for you to participate in a productive discussion of the issue. You are making sensationalist statements ("sued for simply looking at open source code") that are either extremely misguided or disingenuous. If you want to participate sincerely, you need to put forth more effort to understand what's at issue and to communicate using the correct meaning of technical terms.

Re: Monit's DMCA takedown notice for Inspeqtor

#57
post #32

I'm a developer who does just enough server management to keep my systems running, and Monit is an invaluable part of the toolkit. However, the one thing I don't like about Monit is the pseudo natural language syntax that inspeqtor surprisingly borrowed, based on which Monit raises the DMCA claim. I wonder what the general feeling about this is in the sysadmin community, and whether people would prefer a different sy…

Skill-wise I'm similar to you and feel the same way. I too would be interested to hear from full-time sysadmins.

Re: Monit's DMCA takedown notice for Inspeqtor

#58
post #3
post #2

I may be wrong since IMNAL, but something is strange about this: 1) inspeqtor is written in Go and shares no code with Monit anyway. 2) The takedown claims violation of license. Licenses only apply to code, so patents and similar are out of this game. 1+2 don't stay together. How is a code license violated if the code is totally different between the two projects? I believe this is something that can be easily fixed…

If you rewrite Harry Potter in a different script, language, or some plot twists, it's still "derived work".

Say I wrote a story about a young orphan boy who meets a mysterious stranger that reveals to him that he has magical powers and must now go defeat a villain with shocking connections to his parents, what would you say?

And if I called that story Star Wars?

Re: Monit's DMCA takedown notice for Inspeqtor

#59
post #48

There are some very dubious claims in their DMCA takedown notice: > The work, Inspeqtor which is hosted at GitHub, is far from a “clean-room” implementation. This is basically a rewrite of Monit in Go, even using the same configuration language that is used in Monit, verbatim. There is no concept of "clean room" in copyright law, the only issue is whether or not substantial copying has occurred. While it may be easie…

>There is no concept of "clean room" in copyright law, the only issue is whether or not substantial copying has occurred. While it may be easier for the author to avoid accidental copying if he has never looked at the Monit source code, having seen it, being inspired by its design, or deliberately building a compatible system do not constitute copying. I'm far from a copyright expert, but I think there is. The equiva…

A public documented configuration language is a far cry from the source code for the implementation.

Re: Monit's DMCA takedown notice for Inspeqtor

#60

There are too many similarities between the code that suggest the source for Monit was indeed looked at, contrary to what Mike has stated on Twitter. For instance some of the file names are the same, ie, Inspector's events.go and Monit's Event.c Further, the code is very similar in places. Mind you it's not a direct copy, but this can't be coincidence. Monit: https://bitbucket.org/tildeslash/monit/src/1686ffd4baa16b1…

Event? Really?

Well, I guess monit had better hire a few more lawyers.

https://github.com/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=event&type=Code&r...

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