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Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

timeshighereducation.co.uk

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Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#51

Post by nilkn »

zura wrote: post #11
subhro wrote: post #4

I wish this happened in US. The fee part, not the paid to read part :)

Is price significant for public/state universities as well in US?

It depends heavily on where you go, but large and popular public schools can still be very expensive in the US. Here's an example of the cost breakdown at one such school:

http://admissions.missouri.edu/costs-and-aid/costs/index.php

Even more popular public schools like UCLA tend to be about $10k/year more:

http://www.admissions.ucla.edu/prospect/budget.htm

Just to give you an idea of the cost of, say, Harvard...

https://college.harvard.edu/financial-aid/how-aid-works/cost...

Do note that extremely wealthy private institutions like Harvard tend to be correspondingly generous with financial aid, so the number there is likely not representative of what you'd actually pay unless you came from a very rich family (as a fair number of Harvard students do).

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#52

Post by tomp »

tptacek wrote: post #27
Heliosmaster wrote: post #2

* University education? free * Article to read about it? Pay for it. This beautifully sums up the differences of education and news.

I have no idea what this comparison is supposed to mean. Where does journalism come from? The Department of Journalism?

In London, it largely comes from university students interning for free, or desperate young graduates working free internships "to gain experience".

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#53

Post by yodsanklai »

nhaehnle wrote: post #39
jiggy2011 wrote: post #19

Has there been any extensive research done on relationship between university fees and social mobility? On one hand it seems obvious that if you reduce costs of attending university you remove a barrier that would prevent economically disadvantaged people from attending. But on the other hand, university students, especially those at the best universities disproportionately come from better economic backgrounds and t…

Social mobility in Germany is very low, doing consistently worse than e.g. the Scandinavian countries (I remember seeing sources claim that it is even worse than the US, but there seems to be no agreement on that). However, as far as education is concerned, it would be wrong to blame universities. The German school system is very stratified, "locking in" a child's destiny at a young age. Via parents who understand th…

Social mobility is very low in France as well and education is pretty much free.

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#54

Post by icebraining »

s_dev wrote: post #13

Whilst tuition fees in Ireland have not really risen - registration fees have gone from €200 to €3,000 over the 08-14'recession. In the UK fees have also risen. Finland and Denmark are free. I'm not that familiar with Southern or Eastern Europe. I think free third level institutions are important but I'm not opposed to the "free now tax later after certain pay threshold" education systems like Australia. Also [image]…

A problem with that graphic is that it's not adjusted to the local purchasing power. 1000€/year is very different for someone who earns, say, 1440€/month (minimum wage in France) compared to someone who earns 505€/month (minimum wage here in Portugal).

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#55

Post by Igglyboo »

pmr_ wrote: post #15
Igglyboo wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I go to Oakland University in Michigan and we are the only University in the state(country?) to charge no fees. Tuition is still high but that is usually set by the state.

There seems to be a confusion of words here. You seem to make a difference between tuition and tuition fees while the Wikipedia [1] article suggests that those terms mean the same in different English dialects. As for Germany: almost all public Universities still take fees (usually around 100 Euros per semester, tax refundable). Tuition was a new thing and is what has been abandoned again. 1: http://en.wikipedia.org/…

Wikipedia is wrong, most university's in the US have tuition(paid specifically based on how many classes you have) and fees(flat fee for everyone, not based on how many classes you have).

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#56

Post by iammyIP »

cmdkeen wrote: post #18

There's a big difference between no tuition fees and "free" education. All this means is that the cost of education is passed on to all tax payers. Now this can be justified, there is utility in having an educated workforce and society. However when everyone is paying there is a need to have a decision about how many people need that education to provide the benefits everyone gets. The UK is seeing these problems wit…

"[...] way past the point of marginal returns in terms of social or cultural advancement [...]" - how do you measure that? We have just started.

More free education is always better, and as a bonus it forces society to automate mindnumbingly boring jobs when there is nobody left willing to do them. Imagine all People on Earth would have a university degree, good all-around education and culture would explode with the beauty of a supernova way beyond even our wildest imaginations. But no, some people need to be kept uneducated so they are willing to take shit jobs in the dust to serve the few chosen ones. All for the sake of "marginal returns"(?), which seems more important than humanity itself sometimes. This way of thinking must end. The sooner the better. Get educated.

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#57

Post by GolfyMcG »

Why has no one brought up how the top German university is "ranked" 55th on this list:

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-ranki...

I'm not saying this list is definitive or that the US tuition prices are reasonable, but it stands to reason that the best of the best of anything is going to be exponentially more expensive than it's next closest competitors.

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#58

Post by jiggy2011 »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #47
jiggy2011 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if they do make more, does it not make sense for the university grad to pay that cost after they have graduated?

Well they do, but indirectly, via higher income taxes (because higher pay). The Dutch school system uses what you're suggesting actually; the government offers scholarships to all students, which is effectively a (low-interest) loan; if you finish your education, that loan or part thereof (depending on whether you took an extra loan, it's complicated) is forfeited, i.e. you don't have to pay it back. The remainder ca…

But could that not also be extended to any other programme which benefits the more wealthy disproportionately?

If you have two people who earn the same amount of money and one receives a service (university education) and the other does not. Does it make sense to split the costs of that service if the one who received it can afford to pay on their own?

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#60

Post by caw »

waterlesscloud wrote: post #21
zura wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is price significant for public/state universities as well in US?

It used to be pretty reasonable. When I attended Ga Tech (a state school) a couple decades ago, it was a few thousand a year to cover tuition, books, food, dorms. I can't remember tuition exactly, but I think it was in the neighborhood of $1500-1800 a year. (By comparison, MIT and Harvard were in the neighborhood of $16,000 a year at the time). Then there was a period where Georgia had a lottery-funded scholarship th…

The HOPE scholarship used to pay full in-state tuition for full time students. It pays a bit less now, and that started around 2009, though they grandfathered in existing HOPE scholarship students.

Program rules: https://www.gacollege411.org/Financial_Aid_Planning/HOPE_Pro...

Payouts based on credit hours taken: http://www.gsfc.org/main/publishing/pdf/2012/hope_award_amou...

There's still a gap though, because of how GT's tuition works. The cost for under 6 hours is $2,675, and the cost for more than 6 credit hours is $4,501. The highest HOPE payment is $3,390, leaving you to pay roughly $1200 a semester if you take 15 credit hours. If you only take 12 hours (more realistic for GT students, particularly in later years), the state picks up $2,712, leaving you with $1800 a semester to pay for.

Of course this is tuition only. There's still mandatory fees of over $1100 (this has increased a lot since I was there, I seem to remember $500 or so) and optional fees, as well as dorms & food plans.

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