Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Man receives constant pain signals from his brain

montgomerynews.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 60 posts

Re: Man receives constant pain signals from his brain

#51

Post by lukestevens »

Alex3917 wrote: post #49
lukestevens wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been looking into these issues for over a decade. Sarno's theory is psychobabble: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tension_myositis_syndrome . "The treatment protocol for TMS includes education, writing about emotional issues, resumption of a normal lifestyle and, for some patients, support meetings and/or psychotherapy" For general back pain, I wouldn't be surprised if this "treatment" involves some very simple str…

So you think all the studies linking stress with inflammation are some kind of conspiracy?

That's a strange comment. When did I say that? I'm suggesting that curing muscular pain with psychotherapy and emotional journaling is (beyond some simple relaxation response) nonsense; and suggesting it's appropriate for desperately severe CRPS patients is deeply misguided.

Re: Man receives constant pain signals from his brain

#52

Post by throwaway91214 »

senorprogrammer wrote: post #34
throwaway91214 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suffer from chronic pain (pain 24/7, or at least when awake, varying degrees from bad to terrible terrible pain) and have done for 10 years now. To answer your question: no. I do know that my tolerance for pain is significantly higher than most people. I still feel the constant pain from when I wake up to when I fall asleep. Its a horrible thing. It affects my mind when I am trying to write code just like it would…

As someone with chronic pain, nope, I don't think one builds up a tolerance to it. Instead, I think I'm lucky in that the severity waxes and wanes. Below some threshold it recedes from being pervasive, going into the background and I have to go consciously looking for it to see if I'm still feeling it. Exceed that threshold and it's always there, front and centre, just pain. At that point, as throwaway91214 says, I c…

I am the same. I can ignore it until a certain level, then I just have to stop being productive and ride it out.

The trick is to not worry about the effect stopping to ride it out has on your life. Worrying about not working/playing/socializing because it might annoy a boss/client/girlfriend/family/friend or because it will mean less money/friends/etc.

Edit, and hang in there friend. I don't know about you but for me its unlikely to ever get better. I am not an optimist, but there is still a lot of cool shit in this world to enjoy. We are lucky to live in the age we do.

Re: Man receives constant pain signals from his brain

#53

Post by throwaway91214 »

silencio wrote: post #33
throwaway91214 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suffer from chronic pain (pain 24/7, or at least when awake, varying degrees from bad to terrible terrible pain) and have done for 10 years now. To answer your question: no. I do know that my tolerance for pain is significantly higher than most people. I still feel the constant pain from when I wake up to when I fall asleep. Its a horrible thing. It affects my mind when I am trying to write code just like it would…

> Ignoring it takes an incredible amount of mental discipline. This is such an understatement. I don't have 24/7 pain but I have nerve pain that is not very responsive to anything. I can live with the little twinges but if my legs feel like they're on fire, I can barely focus on personal tasks (eating, sleeping, showering, getting out of bed in the first place...) let alone any work. I cannot even begin to imagine wh…

hang in there friend.

Re: Man receives constant pain signals from his brain

#54

Post by Alex3917 »

lukestevens wrote: post #51
Alex3917 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you think all the studies linking stress with inflammation are some kind of conspiracy?

That's a strange comment. When did I say that? I'm suggesting that curing muscular pain with psychotherapy and emotional journaling is (beyond some simple relaxation response) nonsense; and suggesting it's appropriate for desperately severe CRPS patients is deeply misguided.

It seemed to be implied, since much/most chronic back and muscular pain either comes from or is exacerbated by inflammation affecting the spinal cord.

Re: Man receives constant pain signals from his brain

#56

Post by dllthomas »

michaelochurch wrote: post #10
MrJagil wrote: post #3

As a foreigner, how does the insurance industry deal with illnesses like this? Bedridden for 9 years, with loads of heavy sedatives a day + whatever else there might be of tests and whatnot... From the article, it seems the family is entirely alone with this (apart from some potential community support).

The answer is: don't get sick in the U.S. Breaking Bad is accurate in terms of what happens when you're sick in this country. (I don't know of any who became meth kingpins, but people doing stupid stuff due to medical-cost desperation is common.) Health insurance won't cover everything. It won't cover most things it's supposed to cover. Its purpose is to collect premiums when you are young and healthy but when you ar…

"[W]hen you are sick or old it has no interest in serving you. You're just a problem customer in their portfolio."

Right, with two caveats. A big problem with relying on competition to get good behaviour out of health insurers is that for health care in particular the common pattern is that expenses are low, and then for some expenses get high and stay high. As you say, this means that as soon as you need to actually use your insurance, you're a "problem customer" and - basic incentives wise - they'd rather not have you as a customer any more. If they frustrate you sufficiently that you say, "Screw this, I'm going to your competitor!" they win - they keep all the money you paid in, and it's their competitor that needs to pay out now.

The caveats.

First: employer based health care, as weird as it is, serves a role as collective bargaining. Losing the sick person is good. Losing the sick person and a couple thousand healthy people is bad (or at least less good).

The other caveat is the cap on the medical loss ratio in the ACA. If a company is operating near the cap (and why wouldn't they be?) then the pool of money available for executives and shareholders can depend more on total revenues than on revenues minus medical costs. When that's true, losing any customer hurts - even one that nets negative.

I don't think either of these is doing enough (the second might, long term, but I'm not sure the industry has internalized it yet), but they help some.

Re: Man receives constant pain signals from his brain

#57

Post by cpncrunch »

lukestevens wrote: post #50
cpncrunch wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not psychobabble. There is extensive evidence showing that stress and depression result in pain, that FMS is triggered by stress, and that psychosocial factors are important in recovery. The same is true for CFS and IBS, which overlap with FMS. And the pain isn't muscular in nature, it is neurological. I've done extensive research into this area for 15 years, written a book about it, and published research, as w…

I'd be interested in your studies and book - can you share a link? I follow the research. Psychosocial factors have been studied to death and certainly aren't important for recovery, particularly given recovery is not a particularly common outcome (for CFS/FM at least). (If only they were, it would make recovery a lot easier.) They are, however, peddled by people giving false hope to the vulnerable and desperate. IMO…

All the reviews show that CBT is moderately effective for CFS. Unfortunately the effectiveness is quite modest, possibly due to the fact that CBT is based on faulty assumptions.

I'm actually in the process of getting a paper ready for publishing which gives an updated overall theory of the illness, plus a proposed treatment. However because I've been busy working on my business, this has sat on the back-burner for the last few months.

Also, there is so much hate out there for this kind of research that there is no way I'm going to post my name here.

Re: Man receives constant pain signals from his brain

#58

Post by arjie »

bitsweet wrote: post #39
arjie wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With all due respect, I have a question. Where does the pain come 'from'? Like, if we hurt ourselves, the pain comes from _that_ place. When it hurts, does it hurt _from_ a place or just a general feeling of pain over the whole body?

It started in a limb (right forearm where he had trauma from a routine surgery). For many people with RSD/CRPS it doesn't spread. Interestingly people used to go as far as amputating the painful limb but phantom pain remained. For a small percentage of people, it spreads over the entire body. They call this Full Body RSD. My father has this so his pain is everywhere but most often it is in his extremities. At it's lo…

Thank you for the description and the link.

Re: Man receives constant pain signals from his brain

#59

Post by kyllo »

dllthomas wrote: post #56
michaelochurch wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer is: don't get sick in the U.S. Breaking Bad is accurate in terms of what happens when you're sick in this country. (I don't know of any who became meth kingpins, but people doing stupid stuff due to medical-cost desperation is common.) Health insurance won't cover everything. It won't cover most things it's supposed to cover. Its purpose is to collect premiums when you are young and healthy but when you ar…

"[W]hen you are sick or old it has no interest in serving you. You're just a problem customer in their portfolio." Right, with two caveats. A big problem with relying on competition to get good behaviour out of health insurers is that for health care in particular the common pattern is that expenses are low, and then for some expenses get high and stay high. As you say, this means that as soon as you need to actually…

First: employer based health care, as weird as it is, serves a role as collective bargaining. Losing the sick person is good. Losing the sick person and a couple thousand healthy people is bad (or at least less good).

Except that many large employers are self-insured anyway, they only have an insurance company contracted to administer claims, but the employer pays.

So, unfortunately the company then has an incentive not to employ sick people and old people.

Re: Man receives constant pain signals from his brain

#60

Post by dllthomas »

kyllo wrote: post #59
dllthomas wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"[W]hen you are sick or old it has no interest in serving you. You're just a problem customer in their portfolio." Right, with two caveats. A big problem with relying on competition to get good behaviour out of health insurers is that for health care in particular the common pattern is that expenses are low, and then for some expenses get high and stay high. As you say, this means that as soon as you need to actually…

First: employer based health care, as weird as it is, serves a role as collective bargaining. Losing the sick person is good. Losing the sick person and a couple thousand healthy people is bad (or at least less good). Except that many large employers are self-insured anyway, they only have an insurance company contracted to administer claims, but the employer pays. So, unfortunately the company then has an incentive…

"Except that many large employers are self-insured anyway"

Many; it's not all, I'm not sure it's most, and the dynamic I spoke of is still present in smaller employers.

"So, unfortunately the company then has an incentive not to employ sick people and old people."

I never claimed employer based coverage was a panacea. I explicitly called it weird, and I specifically said that it doesn't entirely fix the issue.

Post reply on HN