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Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

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Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#51

Post by schnable »

kazinator wrote: post #4

The "before and after" picture at the bottom of the page shows that both "before" and "after" have bike lanes. The bike lane has grown from 5' to 6" and is separated by a buffer, but it was there before. What has sped up traffic is the creation of left turn pockets in the parking lane. But these could have been created in the "before" situation, by carving them out of the 8" curb-side parking lane. So, the claim that…

I have noticed a pattern in Vox articles where the content does not support the headline.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#52

Post by goblin89 »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #27
derekp7 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm OK with the occasional cyclist. It is when there is a group of 30 from a club riding in a pack, going 15 MPH, on a 45 MPH highway with not a lot of passing areas that get irritating. The other thing that I don't like is having to pass the same cyclist several times in traffic. They pass you on the right when traffic is stoped, but don't move over so you can pass them on the left when traffic starts to move again.

Im sure its annoying, but its that way for a reason. You are belted into a multi-thousand-pound steel-reinforced vehicle. They are riding on some pipes with a Styrofoam block strapped to their head. I most states its legal for cycles (motor and non) to pass cars and pull to the head of the line at a light. Not sure why; but that's the way it is. Stopped cars + agile cyclist = no problem. When traffic is moving after…

> I most states its legal for cycles (motor and non) to pass cars and pull to the head of the line at a light. Not sure why; but that's the way it is.

Try staying for a minute or two behind a vehicle that has its engine running and burning fuel. In a line at a light inhaling exhaust is enough to make you dizzy—at least that's what happened to me when I tried it once. Always pulling right to the light afterwards.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#53

Post by RickHull »

bane wrote: post #28
shiftpgdn wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A cyclist is just a brief inconvenience. It's the same as a school bus or slow driver in a lane requiring you to go around. Every bike on the road is one less car causing traffic. It's crazy to want infrastructure for JUST cyclists when the road is a perfectly good way to travel.

The road is not a perfectly good place for bikes to travel. It's like saying the conveyor belt in an automated slaughter house is a good place to dance because it's flat and doesn't move too fast or that pedestrians should just walk down the middle of the road because it's not a bad walking surface. The biggest possible problem is that as the auto driver you become responsible for any bike rider you come into contact…

I gave you an upvote for the first graf, but you're absolutely incorrect in your second 2.

> I didn't ask them to get on the road with me, but I'll sure as hell be held responsible for their decision if something happens.

Even granting "sure as hell" as hyperbole, you're not even close to correct. Cyclists are held to the same traffic rules as drivers, and they are often found at fault. I do think the unprotected factor is extremely relevant, pushing me to support relaxed traffic rules for cyclists. They are, in fact, not piloting a lethal weapon (as a general rule). But the status quo is overwhelmingly in favor of treating drivers and cyclists equally, if not fairly.

> More importantly, as a tax payer, I've helped fund literally dozens of miles of really nice dedicated paved and marked bike only trails, complete with parking and overpasses, tunnels and signals at busy intersections. There is literally no excuse for them to play "Tour de France" on the same road I'm trying to get to work on.

Again, I'll grant you the hyperbole of "literally no excuse", where all I would need is a single counterexample. You've obviously never attempted to commute as a cyclist if you think you can get from your house to your work on bike-only paths. The number of counterexamples is orders of magnitude larger than the number of qualifying examples. For you to even come close to believing your statements tells me you live in an idyllic outlier of a community. Sign me up.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#54

Post by lotsofmangos »

bane wrote: post #28
shiftpgdn wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A cyclist is just a brief inconvenience. It's the same as a school bus or slow driver in a lane requiring you to go around. Every bike on the road is one less car causing traffic. It's crazy to want infrastructure for JUST cyclists when the road is a perfectly good way to travel.

The road is not a perfectly good place for bikes to travel. It's like saying the conveyor belt in an automated slaughter house is a good place to dance because it's flat and doesn't move too fast or that pedestrians should just walk down the middle of the road because it's not a bad walking surface. The biggest possible problem is that as the auto driver you become responsible for any bike rider you come into contact…

Bikes are the main form of transport for a lot of people. They aren't interlopers playing Tour de France on your road, they are fellow travellers who are going somewhere.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#55

Post by kazinator »

bane wrote: post #28
shiftpgdn wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A cyclist is just a brief inconvenience. It's the same as a school bus or slow driver in a lane requiring you to go around. Every bike on the road is one less car causing traffic. It's crazy to want infrastructure for JUST cyclists when the road is a perfectly good way to travel.

The road is not a perfectly good place for bikes to travel. It's like saying the conveyor belt in an automated slaughter house is a good place to dance because it's flat and doesn't move too fast or that pedestrians should just walk down the middle of the road because it's not a bad walking surface. The biggest possible problem is that as the auto driver you become responsible for any bike rider you come into contact…

Cyclists also pay taxes, including for roads. Not only that, but they consume goods that were shipped, in part, by truck; thereby they put dollars into the road-based economy like everyone else.

Dedicated bike lanes tend not to exist everywhere. The initiatives for such things tend to be concentrated in city downtown areas where there are many riders. Once you are out in the boonies, there tends to be nothing. Often a piece of highway is the only realistic way to get somewhere, whether by car or bike. It's either that, or cut through a bush, corn field, or swim a body of water.

As we get away from the downtown areas, we still find bike trails, but more oriented toward recreation. They are localized into small areas and veer off useless places such as parks on the assumption that you aren't going to work, but on a picnic (if you were going to work, you would obviously drive). The trails do not form a complete system to get from A to B; even if you use them as much as possible, you have to use regular roads to get from one trail network to another. Some bike trails are also simply not built for speed; you cannot just get on these trails and pedal all out at 30 mp/h.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#56

Post by watwut »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #27
derekp7 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm OK with the occasional cyclist. It is when there is a group of 30 from a club riding in a pack, going 15 MPH, on a 45 MPH highway with not a lot of passing areas that get irritating. The other thing that I don't like is having to pass the same cyclist several times in traffic. They pass you on the right when traffic is stoped, but don't move over so you can pass them on the left when traffic starts to move again.

Im sure its annoying, but its that way for a reason. You are belted into a multi-thousand-pound steel-reinforced vehicle. They are riding on some pipes with a Styrofoam block strapped to their head. I most states its legal for cycles (motor and non) to pass cars and pull to the head of the line at a light. Not sure why; but that's the way it is. Stopped cars + agile cyclist = no problem. When traffic is moving after…

The car passing and pulling to the head of the line makes more sense for motorcycles. They have faster starts then cars and are relatively more vulnerable. If they go first they do not slow starting cars down while lowering the chance of collision.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#57

Post by heydenberk »

mindslight wrote: post #40
msandford wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bikes aren't automobiles no matter how much we debate about it. They shouldn't be sharing the road with cars. While I understand the sentiment you need to understand that cyclists are put in a pretty awkward legal situation themselves. They exist in a no-mans-land between pedestrians and vehicles. Sidewalks are often too narrow, too close to blind corners, etc for safety. They're often VERY bumpy. At 2mph a sidewal…

> The police tend to look at cyclists the way you do, and many times don't find fault with drivers even if cyclists are KILLED much less injured or have their bikes destroyed. I mostly drive these days, but I'm no friend of cars in general or police for that matter. However it's important to keep in mind that injustices occur both ways, and forming blanket statements is a great way to end up just talking past one ano…

>> However it's important to keep in mind that injustices occur both ways, and forming blanket statements is a great way to end up just talking past one another.

That's not true. Did you look at the New York Times article? The prosecution rate of motorists who kill cyclists in non-hit-and-run crashes is close to 0. In several major cities, it is actually 0. So no, the injustices do not go both ways.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#58

Post by turar »

bane wrote: post #13

I'm one of those drivers who hates sharing roadways with bikers. It's not that I have to share, but between slowing traffic down, pure safety concerns for the biker (who I as the automobile driver am responsible for in the case of an accident) and the generally shitty entitled attitude lots of bike riders seem to have (probably earned from dealing with irritated drivers like me) I get my hackles raised every time I s…

As a motorist who sees cyclists daily, I have yet to see a cyclist obey a stop sign. I see blatant disregard for stop signs every single day. Same thing for red lights -- I see cyclists routinely disregard red lights, unless crossing a busy road, where disregarding a red light will certainly get them killed.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#59

Post by apendleton »

The results here are impressive, but the particular example they show in the last picture seems pretty dangerous, unless I'm misunderstanding. It seems like it places left-turning car traffic to the right of cyclist through-traffic, creating an opportunity for "left-hooks." Many jurisdictions use mixing zones instead: http://www.streetsblog.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/dc_mix...

(Unless there's a separate signal phase for the cyclist through-traffic, which is possible, but not that common in the US.)

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#60

Post by sxcurry »

bane wrote: post #13

I'm one of those drivers who hates sharing roadways with bikers. It's not that I have to share, but between slowing traffic down, pure safety concerns for the biker (who I as the automobile driver am responsible for in the case of an accident) and the generally shitty entitled attitude lots of bike riders seem to have (probably earned from dealing with irritated drivers like me) I get my hackles raised every time I s…

I totally agree - bikes should not be sharing the road with angry entitled nasty car drivers. Solution - get rid of the cars. Seriously. Make all traffic lanes in city cores bikes only, and make public transit free for everyone. Have dedicated hours at night when delivery vehicles can use the roads. BTW, I drive and bike and would be willing to give up a lot of the convenience of using my vehicle if these measures could be implemented.
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