You should do small projects to evaluate developers you hire.
From the startup who allegedly stole software and raised $2M with it
51–60 of 114 posts
Re: From the startup who allegedly stole software and raised $2M with it
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
Err, that is complete nonsense. If there is a reasonable case to be made then people should consider it.
Consider it for what benefit to pigeon.ly? True there is altruistic value to the HN community, but from a business perspective his OP is likely to cause damage to his brand.
Not really. If the original poster hadn't outed them by name it would be fine, but as it is a very popular HN post directly says that Pigeon.ly are thieves. I think they're reasonable to want to counter that.
Re: From the startup who allegedly stole software and raised $2M with it
#53I think you're going to have a hard time here trying to convince a developer community that a "refund" is something a client is entitled to in a work for hire situation. You ask a developer to do work for you, they do the requested work, and you pay them. If you don't like the work, you end the relationship. But you still have to pay them for their time. I don't envy the next few weeks for you guys, but you definitel…
Depends what the contract is for. If it's for "programming", then you have to pay, no matter what program you receive. However, if it's for "complete and functional product", then unless they produce that, you don't need to pay. Like in a restaurant, if you order pizza, and get steak, why would you pay?
It's impossible to say without the specifics of the contract but there are some standard practices that can be assumed. If the contract is for a product, as opposed to time spent, for a product there are usually defined acceptance criteria. A large product will have milestones with their own deliverables and acceptance criteria. Once the customer accepts the deliverable it's considered done and the developer should be paid for that deliverable. If the customer later regrets that choice that's too bad. The customer can usually exit the contract at any point although the contract might specify a penalty for this.
Re: From the startup who allegedly stole software and raised $2M with it
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
I believe Cake is like Rails in that it puts out JavaScript code automatically for AJAXing things.
While that is true, the Javascript it inserts is thoroughly tested for browser compatibility issues.
Yes, in which case "the framework was not utilized correctly" could mean "reimplemented all that shittily rather than using the built-in stuff".
Re: From the startup who allegedly stole software and raised $2M with it
#55> "...the framework was not utilized correctly which resulted in the numerous bugs and browser incompatibility issues." CakePHP is a server-side framework. Browser incompatibility is not going to be an issue of CakePHP. Either you are too inexperienced to know this or you are making a lame excuse. I can see where this would go wrong if the developer made a complete rookie mistake and screwing up input on forms, metho…
The front-end issues may have nothing to do with the CakePHP framework but the developer did have to create/modify views. In that case the dev still could have cause incompatibility issues. I'm not picking sides in this but I'm just saying that the OP not understanding what the framework does, doesn't mean that the dev is completely off the hook.
Re: From the startup who allegedly stole software and raised $2M with it
#56I'm sorry but I fail to see what this post is for. You made a post complaining about someone else's post (of which should not have been made in the first place) trying too win over people of whom have no opinion on the matter? Or is this just you trying to get some PR cred by saying that it was buggy/not properly done/blah blah because a bunch of people (which could be entirely made up) said so? And in my professiona…
As a CakePHP Core Developer, I disagree with the fact that you can't use the framework wrong. Any utility/library/framework can and will be bent backwards to accommodate the needs of the developer, and in ways the original developer did not imagine were possible.
It's totally possible that the developer in question wrote horrid code - though any browser issues would only be caused by html/css, something the framework doesn't generate for you past having initial admin-type scaffolding.
I still think the guy should have gotten paid and kept the money.
Re: From the startup who allegedly stole software and raised $2M with it
#57Re: From the startup who allegedly stole software and raised $2M with it
#58Since both parties are in agreement as to what actions were taken, why don't you show us the contract so that we can determine who acted appropriately?
Leave that to lawyers. The HN audience is savvy, but I don't think most of us are capable of legally interpreting an agreement without taking a side on the matter first.
I'm not asking to try the case for them. I'd simply like to come to my own conclusion.
Re: From the startup who allegedly stole software and raised $2M with it
#59How many hours of this developers time did you take up? Refunds don't exist unless you're willing to go to court and if the work was actually damaging to your company. You took a risk and you have to pay for at least the time of the developer if not their skill (since it wasn't up to your expectations).
In any case, you built the app from the scratch. The previous dev with their previous crappy code base can go cry somewhere else and stop making defamatory comments about your company.
Re: From the startup who allegedly stole software and raised $2M with it
#60"So we were left with no choice but to start from scratch with a new developer."
In that case, the solution is simple. Tell them "We are not using the code you delivered to us in any form. You are welcome to keep it".