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LinkedIn to pay nearly $6M in unpaid overtime wages and damages to 359 employees

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Re: LinkedIn to pay nearly $6M in unpaid overtime wages and damages to 359 employees

#51

Post by georgemcbay »

throwawayh3d8 wrote: post #37
georgemcbay wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on your job and other factors, but sometimes the answer is, sadly, yes. My mom is a soon-to-retire nurse and she was a salaried employee who, if she worked overtime, made either time-and-a-half (1.5x) or double-time (2x) pay depending upon the situation. But software developers, for all of the talk of ninjas and rockstars and whatnot, are a socially low and easily exploited class that make decisions agains…

Sounds bitter. Software developers are certainly not regarded as socially lower than a nurse, quite the opposite (at least in Europe). But I _do_ agree that, compared to many other professions prestiges is low. I also agree that it's time for unions, although simply owing the company collectively may work better. More importantly, people should not allow themselves to be exploited and realise that doing so is just as…

Not really bitter, just somewhat jaded.

I don't know how it is in Europe, but in the US it is kind of a complex situation where we are externally not regarded as socially lower (from the outside it is all very glamorous and we are all Silicon Valley millionaires) and we do make decent baseline wages (though outside of a few companies like Google there tends to be a glass ceiling on our earnings unless we become something other than software developers, eg become tech managers) and (rather importantly right now) we do have a very high level of employability relative to many other professional fields.

But all that aside, we are still often exploited as a resource (IMO) by the "ruling class" of business people/MBA types/investors/etc in ways they would not allow themselves to be exploited.

Re: LinkedIn to pay nearly $6M in unpaid overtime wages and damages to 359 employees

#52

Post by johnward »

Semaphor wrote: post #20
allsystemsgo wrote: post #3

I don't get it. So if I'm working overtime for my employer, a lot, I'm entitled to money? I get that my work after hours is essentially "free" labor. But I wasn't aware that there are actually laws that say salaried employees are entitled to more compensation when working after hours.

Wait, if you work overtime in the U.S. you do not get compensated for it?

Yes. Companies tend to abuse this in some cases and in other cases it's more lenient. Currently I will work overtime, without pay, if I project requires it. I will also take a few hours to go to a doctor appointment during the day. So it balances out.

Previously I had to work over 50-60 hours regularly without over time pay. That probably goes against what is expected of an "exempt" employee and I probably should have been compensated. I left that position for obvious reasons.

Generally in the US if you are paid a guaranteed yearly salary, meaning not paid hourly, you do not get overtime pay. One exception I've experience is in retail. For example the manager of our deli department would get paid 1/2 time (not time + 1/2) for overtime.

Re: LinkedIn to pay nearly $6M in unpaid overtime wages and damages to 359 employees

#53

Post by Semaphor »

jlarocco wrote: post #48
Semaphor wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, if you work overtime in the U.S. you do not get compensated for it?

The opposite holds, too, though. Salaried employees make the same amount whether they work 30 hours a week or 50. That said, most people try to average out to around 40 hours, because they usually agree to five 8 hour days.

Could someone explain to me why this and the other comment regarding salaried employees are downvoted?

Re: LinkedIn to pay nearly $6M in unpaid overtime wages and damages to 359 employees

#54

Post by johnward »

georgemcbay wrote: post #30
Semaphor wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, if you work overtime in the U.S. you do not get compensated for it?

It depends on your job and other factors, but sometimes the answer is, sadly, yes. My mom is a soon-to-retire nurse and she was a salaried employee who, if she worked overtime, made either time-and-a-half (1.5x) or double-time (2x) pay depending upon the situation. But software developers, for all of the talk of ninjas and rockstars and whatnot, are a socially low and easily exploited class that make decisions agains…

Healthcare is a high demand field, especially nursing. They seem to be able to negotiate shorter work weeks like working 3 10 hour days and being paid for 40 hours, etc. It's somewhat physically and mentally demanding.

Software is in high demand but still a middle class job (similar to nursing). It's very mentally demanding. The physical demand is different as it's a problem of not being active enough to be healthy. Not to mention that in software you are likely spending a significant time working outside of normal working hours if it's for your company or just to increase your skills/learn something new. How else are you supposed to have the required a super awesome github profile to show when you go for an interview?

Re: LinkedIn to pay nearly $6M in unpaid overtime wages and damages to 359 employees

#55

Post by Smudge »

larrys wrote: post #42
Smudge wrote: post #2

> This company has shown a great deal of integrity by fully cooperating with investigators and stepping up to the plate without hesitation to help make workers whole ... We are particularly pleased that LinkedIn also has committed to take positive and practical steps towards securing future compliance. I'm surprised they're getting praised so much for complying. It's not like they had a choice. Instead of commending…

As I've put in my other comment elsewhere I got hit with a DOL action many years ago. It definitely wasn't willful but we were running afoul of some hidden rule that even some lawyers had never heard of and didn't know about. One employee complained, they investigated and audited, and we got fined and had to pay back wages. I'm not commenting on why or what linkedin did only providing perspective that it can happen f…

Interesting perspective. It's unfortunate that you can get bit even when trying to play fair. Even if LinkedIn's mistake was similarly unwitting, we should try to learn something from it. Maybe the rules have become too complex, or maybe more guidance is needed to help employers stay within the lines.

Re: LinkedIn to pay nearly $6M in unpaid overtime wages and damages to 359 employees

#56

Post by tieTYT »

hmahncke wrote: post #10
revelation wrote: post #4

prohibiting off-the-clock work to all nonexempt employees I presume this doesn't include computer professionals , which for some reason are exempt [1], as are sales staff on commission or, you know, farmworkers . Can someone explain why this insanity continues? The original source for that exemption seems to be [2], an act from 1990 To eliminate "substantial documentary evidence" requirement for minimum wage determin…

In California, computer professionals paid under ~$85k are required to be non-exempt (hourly) and should be paid overtime [1] [1]: http://www.shrm.org/templatestools/hrqa/pages/california-min...

It keeps using the word "employee". How does this apply to contractors and consultants? Do they negotiate their own terms? Are high earning ones expected to be exempt like employees?

Re: LinkedIn to pay nearly $6M in unpaid overtime wages and damages to 359 employees

#57

Post by ulfw »

Semaphor wrote: post #20
allsystemsgo wrote: post #3

I don't get it. So if I'm working overtime for my employer, a lot, I'm entitled to money? I get that my work after hours is essentially "free" labor. But I wasn't aware that there are actually laws that say salaried employees are entitled to more compensation when working after hours.

Wait, if you work overtime in the U.S. you do not get compensated for it?

Silicon Valley wouldn't exist if those would be paid. It's one of the small 'perks' of making a 6 digit salary. You work so many unpaid overtime hours that your actual hourly wage isn't THAT high anymore. (especially if you also take only 10 vacation days into account etc)

Re: LinkedIn to pay nearly $6M in unpaid overtime wages and damages to 359 employees

#58

Post by honest_george »

yulaow wrote: post #25
allsystemsgo wrote: post #3

I don't get it. So if I'm working overtime for my employer, a lot, I'm entitled to money? I get that my work after hours is essentially "free" labor. But I wasn't aware that there are actually laws that say salaried employees are entitled to more compensation when working after hours.

As a EU citizen I hoped to see a /s under your post. I do not want to be rude but here it is obvious that if you work overtime you must be compensated and also very well (usually 1,5-2 times more than regular hours). And not only it, in some states, like mine, you can work only a limited amount of hours (6 or 8, I don't remember well) overtime per week, otherwise it is illegal.

I've had very different experiences working in the EU (Belgium).

On my first day of work, I received a document containing company rules and guidelines. Overtime is never paid and it is considered "an engineer's pride" to fix any bugs in his own time. Of course this overtime isn't limited to bugfixing, and when there's a deadline coming up (there's always a deadline coming up) or when someting just isn't working you are expected to do whatever it takes to get things working.

One of my colleagues received comments on a recent evaluation after he refused to come in on a Saturday because there was a problem with a display driver on a project he hadn't worked on for weeks.

The 38 hours we work each week is more of a guideline than a rule really. Unless of course you want to work less, in which case that would be grounds for immediate dismissal.

Re: LinkedIn to pay nearly $6M in unpaid overtime wages and damages to 359 employees

#59

Post by yulaow »

honest_george wrote: post #58
yulaow wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a EU citizen I hoped to see a /s under your post. I do not want to be rude but here it is obvious that if you work overtime you must be compensated and also very well (usually 1,5-2 times more than regular hours). And not only it, in some states, like mine, you can work only a limited amount of hours (6 or 8, I don't remember well) overtime per week, otherwise it is illegal.

I've had very different experiences working in the EU (Belgium). On my first day of work, I received a document containing company rules and guidelines. Overtime is never paid and it is considered "an engineer's pride" to fix any bugs in his own time. Of course this overtime isn't limited to bugfixing, and when there's a deadline coming up (there's always a deadline coming up) or when someting just isn't working you…

Can't you just signal to authorities or unions that you were dismissed for that reason (that is not a "good enough" reason on my state) and basically fuck up the entire company considering that that guidelines document would come up in even the simplest investigation? This would put your employer in a weak position, so weak you can easily even blackmail him

Re: LinkedIn to pay nearly $6M in unpaid overtime wages and damages to 359 employees

#60

Post by gnopgnip »

georgemcbay wrote: post #30
Semaphor wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, if you work overtime in the U.S. you do not get compensated for it?

It depends on your job and other factors, but sometimes the answer is, sadly, yes. My mom is a soon-to-retire nurse and she was a salaried employee who, if she worked overtime, made either time-and-a-half (1.5x) or double-time (2x) pay depending upon the situation. But software developers, for all of the talk of ninjas and rockstars and whatnot, are a socially low and easily exploited class that make decisions agains…

In CA you have to make 84k a year for the computer professional overtime exemption. If you are making under that you are still getting overtime pay. There are many jobs that do not meet the requirements to be exempt also.
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