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Diversity and Startups

blog.ycombinator.com

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Re: Diversity and Startups

#51

Post by thomasfromcdnjs »

Castlereagh wrote: post #29

People who are not white males... I know it's hard to believe, but relative to their proportion in the workforce white males are slightly under represented in tech. Additionally, people of color are dramatically over represented. It's easy to march under the banner of "men in tech shouldn't act like sexist jerks"—what kind of sexist jerk could object to that?—but the more accurate slogan "we need many fewer Asian mal…

Just hi-hacking this comment to talk about the same line.

Everybody needs to stop with this "white-male" nonsense, which is inherently racist. There is much cultural diversity among what is considered "white" and that is painfully obvious. The "black" American guy and "white" American gal might have more in common with each other than the "white" Italian working in the cubicle next door. This also applies to the vast spectrum of "Asians" whose cultures differ significantly.

And just a personal opinion on something else Sam said

"Realizing that it’s hard to speak with much authority here as a white guy"

Completely unnecessary and I think it would be healthier if people stop this self persecution. (Using the same logic, maybe I can say this with authority because I am an indigenous Australian =D)

Re: Diversity and Startups

#52

Post by argonaut »

staunch wrote: post #41

What about class? Ivy League Parents -> Private School -> SAT tutoring -> Ivy League College -> Investment by Ivy League VC -> Acquired by Ivy League Tech Company vs Poor parents -> Shitty Public School -> High School Drop Out -> Programmer at Ivy League Tech Company (maybe) There's a reason most of the big tech companies are from Ivy League graduates. And you can't ignore how many successful startups only happened b…

Minor nit, which is that all the top CS (and engineering, for that matter) schools are not Ivy League schools: MIT, Berkeley, Stanford, CMU. And I've never heard of top tech companies being referred to as Ivy League tech companies. But your point is still valid when you talk about "top schools."

Re: Diversity and Startups

#53

Post by epistasis »

tomjen3 wrote: post #33
epistasis wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the ways that people slow down progress, in startups or in society, is by resisting unreasonably at every step in a series of steps in an argument. If you want to debate that, that's fine, just do it somewhere else. It appears that Y Combinator has accepted the ample evidence of the presence of sexism in tech, and is focusing discussion away from existence, and towards the next necessary steps. Rehashing the e…

>One of the ways that people slow down progress, in startups or in society, is by resisting unreasonably at every step in a series of steps in an argument. They key here is _unreasonable_. I do not believe it unreasonable to demand evidence to the extend and nature of sexism in tech (as I have seen no formal study on it at all). Frankly all I am seeing here are the very methods described in What you can't say being u…

>I do not believe it unreasonable to demand evidence to the extend and nature of sexism in tech (as I have seen no formal study on it at all).

I'm trying to not be rude here, but my inclination is to tell you to just go look for such studies or run such a study yourself. Nobody owes you a spoon-fed version of reality on your terms when they make their own decisions.

What is unreasonable is saying that normal business decision practices are not adequate to make this particular decision, and instead a formal, "unbiased" study must be conducted.

The numbers are so extreme that they speak for themselves. Several years of 0% women founders, and now 10%.

There's a double standard for evidence when it comes to sexism (and other cultural issues). Maybe it's because some people take it as a personal affront, as if they're accepting responsibility for the actions of others, and it switches into "prove beyond a reasonable doubt" mode rather than "what's the most likely reality here."

Recently there was a string of articles on Language Log about gender disparities in meetings between men interrupting women and women interrupting men during discussion. A surprisingly large number of comments consisted of men denying the evidence. This type of response is endemic wherever science touches cultural issues. An unbiased scientific study of gender disparity may be useful as a tool for finding where to make corrective steps, but it will convince nearly no one. On issues like this, people stick to their cultural inclinations more than the evidence.

HN has decided to move the conversation forward, and I give them kudos for that.

Re: Diversity and Startups

#54

Post by arjie »

dominotw wrote: post #38
Castlereagh wrote: post #29

People who are not white males... I know it's hard to believe, but relative to their proportion in the workforce white males are slightly under represented in tech. Additionally, people of color are dramatically over represented. It's easy to march under the banner of "men in tech shouldn't act like sexist jerks"—what kind of sexist jerk could object to that?—but the more accurate slogan "we need many fewer Asian mal…

I know Indians are overrepresented to their relative proportion in general population ( ~1%)

That's because we're the master race. I'm kidding. It's because we're immigrants from a populous country that overwhelmingly work in a few occupations in America.

Re: Diversity and Startups

#55

Post by [deleted] »

argonaut wrote: post #52
staunch wrote: post #41

What about class? Ivy League Parents -> Private School -> SAT tutoring -> Ivy League College -> Investment by Ivy League VC -> Acquired by Ivy League Tech Company vs Poor parents -> Shitty Public School -> High School Drop Out -> Programmer at Ivy League Tech Company (maybe) There's a reason most of the big tech companies are from Ivy League graduates. And you can't ignore how many successful startups only happened b…

Minor nit, which is that all the top CS (and engineering, for that matter) schools are not Ivy League schools: MIT, Berkeley, Stanford, CMU. And I've never heard of top tech companies being referred to as Ivy League tech companies. But your point is still valid when you talk about "top schools."

[deleted]

Re: Diversity and Startups

#56

Post by dang »

NaitJones wrote: post #28
sama wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's really hard to address everything in one post, and i think the issues around gender and race in tech are pretty different. (we did include a stat on international founders, many of which are not white.) i don't think we're playing this on "easy mode", but i'm sorry you feel that way.

Let me first say, as someone with two children, both girls, I really appreciate the efforts that are going into making CS careers an accessible option for them, and that includes your post and the sentiment behind it. Kudos to you! What continues to irk me is the almost a disregard for black males when discussing diversity. There isn't a single group less represented in CS than AA males and there isn't a single group…

I wish all new accounts made such thoughtful posts. Welcome to HN!

Re: Diversity and Startups

#57

Post by NaitJones »

lliwta wrote: post #49
NaitJones wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me first say, as someone with two children, both girls, I really appreciate the efforts that are going into making CS careers an accessible option for them, and that includes your post and the sentiment behind it. Kudos to you! What continues to irk me is the almost a disregard for black males when discussing diversity. There isn't a single group less represented in CS than AA males and there isn't a single group…

I'm so glad to see this post! You hit the nail on the head. > Black men are being left out of another generation of wealth creation and we need to stem (excuse the pun) the tide of that now. What's your suggestion, other than the normal stuff (engaging with students in HS etc)?

It can start by not brushing it under the rug. By using "diversity" as a catch all for feel goodiness, is a little bit self serving and even selfish in the grand scheme of things. If we are going to do the work then do it, don't do a bunch of marketing. If we want to look at CS and look at the harshest affected group it specifically black males (which no one is doing in all of these reports they are releasing) - it irks me because it seems that the world has moved on from black males needing help and it is more en vogue in 2014 to focus efforts on women and LGBT entirely and exclusively. A more well rounded approach is needed and that can't begin until we are comfortable with admitting that the job isn't done in regards to young black males, and yet the sentiment seems to be "we've done enough for that underrepresented group"

Solutions? tech companies and incubators need to be targeting young black males for immersion and mentoring programs as early as 5th grade. The myth that silicon valley is closed to non CS types needs to be exposed for exactly that, a myth, so that we can start to recruit talented non SC students into silicon valley in areas of marketing, sales, general management and finance. Areas where they are currently.

waiting ten years until the CS rates increase is not an option, because the ship will have already sailed by then on this generation of wealth being created

the whole debate around diversity in silicon valley right now is pretty much marketing and seems pretty cynical and disingenuous from my POV

Re: Diversity and Startups

#58

Post by streptomycin »

gizmo wrote: post #48
[deleted] wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

I'm not sure what you're hinting at with your remark about racial disparities with regard to education, IQ and culture. Right now your comment looks pretty racist.

The average American man and the average American woman have the same IQ, were raised in fairly similar cultural environments, and received fairly similar educations.

But compare the average black man and the average white man. The average black man has a lower IQ (Google it, many citations), somewhat different culture (more likely to have grown up in poverty, more likely to speak in AAVE, more likely to have come from a broken home, etc), and worse education (likely went to worse schools as a kid, less likely to have gone to college, etc).

Maybe I am racist for writing that, but I think it would be more racist to ignore those facts, because that would lead to ignoring the problems and not trying to help disadvantaged groups.

Re: Diversity and Startups

#59

Post by dang »

minimaxir wrote: post #9
Permit wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have no way to tell if they're being flagged by users or setting off the automated system for detecting flamewars. One of the problems with the topic is that essentially every Hacker News reader feels as though they're qualified to comment on the topic. This translates into massive nested threads that blow up with people arguing the same points. I'm not convinced that discussion of these issues on Hacker News does…

About a year ago, a friend wrote a good post about diversity in hackathons which was submitted to HN and hit #2 quickly, then dropped down to the second page in an instant: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6495950 Not many people commented on it. I believe the flame-war detector only takes significant effect when # comments > # points, which is a pretty good heuristic for a flame war that has gone out of control.

For what it's worth at this late date, that post set off the voting ring detector. No users flagged it and no moderator moderated it.

Re: Diversity and Startups

#60

Post by brianbreslin »

Would expanding the geographic sourcing of startups help with diversity? Cities like Miami, which is 75% hispanic, our startups are as diverse as our city. However I only recall a couple ever getting into YC (note, I have no idea of the merits of any others who applied).

So could sourcing from more diverse cities help YC ?

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