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Redesigning The World Cup 2014 Brazil

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Re: Redesigning The World Cup 2014 Brazil

#51
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did not know that. :/ The double-digit score and ranking problems remain though.

Handling double digit scores is something that you don't need to worry about in football. Not unless it was Brazil versus a local pub team. LTR implies ranking also, but anyone who has watched a few games of football (other than in the world cup) knows that it actually signifies which teams are home and away.

LTR doesn't imply ranking because we read from left to right (IMHO). Google for ranking and try to find an example that doesn't use top down (Google itself is a good example). FYI, the highest score in a football match is 149:0 (happened in 2002: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AS_Adema_%E2%80%93_SO_l%27Emyr...)

And even during a world cup double-digits can be reached quite easily when the game is decided by penalty shootout.

The whole point of a layout is to be flexible.

Re: Redesigning The World Cup 2014 Brazil

#53
Another one of those classic HN threads whereby tech geeks attempt to "improve" something you clearly understand very little about and end up being schooled by those with experience.

1. As has been covered; the team names on screen represent home and away not the side of the pitch. This format has been in use for decades and cannot be improved. Every football fan in the world understands it. You are 0/1.

2. Thanks for the blinding suggestion of putting the team formation on the screen before the game begins. If only every football game had such a thing already. Oh wait, it does and has done since the 1970s. You are 0/2

3. The clock design is unintelligible. The idea of the clock onscreen is purely to give you information when you glance at it, not to detract from the action on screen with measurement bars and large typefaces. 0/3

4. You completely misunderstood about red and yellow cards. Straight reds can be given, they are not always 2 yellow cards. 0/4

5. Football does not need space for double digit scores. 0/5

6. Who cares about possession mid-game? You fail to grasp that half time is for analysis. 0/6

7. Stoppage time is not fixed. It is the referees perception and is affected by events during stoppage time itself. The countdown bar is useless. 0/7

8. the beauty of football, most fans would agree, is the lack of stats and quantative analysis. Midfielders are not ranked according to passes attempted/completed or defenders by tackles successful. Football is subjective and heuristic and the fans and the sport itself is happy to embrace that. Infographics only ever get trotted out when a manager needs fired. 0/8

9. Football is the most popular sport in the world (by a massive margin) with the worlds biggest network television providers optimising every single aspect of the on and off-screen experience. Children in african villages, Brazilian favelas and Norwegian forests understand it intuitively. Any design change you could make would be minutely incremental and certainly not grounded in Web 2.0 or 3.0 type principles. You can see this attitude displayed in the hostility of football fans to american-style video refereeing. It would destroy the pace of the game. Football is subjective, anecdotal, memory based and contentious. It's why we love it. If you attempt to data-fy it the consensus will find another channel (IMO).

I have not even touched on television types, sponsorship and branding, the terrible choice of icons you chose (why is there a basketball in your icon set??) and other things.

I love design attempts but don't redesign a sport you clearly don't understand. Customer Development comes before User Development. Understand my sport before you attempt to understand my UX needs.

Re: Redesigning The World Cup 2014 Brazil

#54
post #53

Another one of those classic HN threads whereby tech geeks attempt to "improve" something you clearly understand very little about and end up being schooled by those with experience. 1. As has been covered; the team names on screen represent home and away not the side of the pitch. This format has been in use for decades and cannot be improved. Every football fan in the world understands it. You are 0/1. 2. Thanks fo…

A bit abrasive; I do agree though.

Re: Redesigning The World Cup 2014 Brazil

#55
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Handling double digit scores is something that you don't need to worry about in football. Not unless it was Brazil versus a local pub team. LTR implies ranking also, but anyone who has watched a few games of football (other than in the world cup) knows that it actually signifies which teams are home and away.

LTR doesn't imply ranking because we read from left to right (IMHO). Google for ranking and try to find an example that doesn't use top down (Google itself is a good example). FYI, the highest score in a football match is 149:0 (happened in 2002: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AS_Adema_%E2%80%93_SO_l%27Emyr... ) And even during a world cup double-digits can be reached quite easily when the game is decided by penalty s…

> LTR doesn't imply ranking because we read from left to right (IMHO).

When we name our company you won't mind if we put my name first then.

> FYI, the highest score in a football match is 149:0

I don't think non-televised protest matches matter. The EPL (probably the most watched league in the world) has literally never produced a double digit scoring match (that's approx. 7980 matches).

> And even during a world cup double-digits can be reached quite easily when the game is decided by penalty shootout.

You're not arguing from knowledge at all, you're just googling shit to be contrary. You don't add the goals from the penalty shootout to the total, they are a separate scoreline.

Re: Redesigning The World Cup 2014 Brazil

#56

The clock is actually harder to read this way. I want to glance and know what time we're on. By presenting the time in an unconventional way, you're making it difficult for me to do that. It also doesn't offer a way to distinguish between extra time and stoppage time. When a player is booked, injured, substituted, etc I prefer to see what's, you know, happening . If you want to help me do that, you shouldn't obstruct…

The ball and the cards were the only icons I understood at first glance. It's common to use a ball icon to mean "goal", the single card is probably yellow, and the double one red. I still don't see any problem with using colors. If the goal is being clear at a distance (a good goal, that they failed to achieve), colors are way better than an extra line. I also don't like how they put everything inside a rectangle, so…

I didn't make the connection between the ball icon and a goal until I read your comment. I think this just goes to show that icons as a primary indicator of something are just very hard to get right. Having said that, tho, I would make the connection if I were watching an actual match, but that's precisely when I don't want to see that icon in the middle of the screen. A small icon, the name of the player and the minute the goal was scored at, readable in a place where it doesn't block the view, is actually useful.

Re: Redesigning The World Cup 2014 Brazil

#57
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LTR doesn't imply ranking because we read from left to right (IMHO). Google for ranking and try to find an example that doesn't use top down (Google itself is a good example). FYI, the highest score in a football match is 149:0 (happened in 2002: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AS_Adema_%E2%80%93_SO_l%27Emyr... ) And even during a world cup double-digits can be reached quite easily when the game is decided by penalty s…

> LTR doesn't imply ranking because we read from left to right (IMHO). When we name our company you won't mind if we put my name first then. > FYI, the highest score in a football match is 149:0 I don't think non-televised protest matches matter. The EPL (probably the most watched league in the world) has literally never produced a double digit scoring match (that's approx. 7980 matches). > And even during a world cu…

> When we name our company you won't mind if we put my name first then.

That's an old problem really. Somebody has to go first. Home team over away team, alphabetical order, etc. I think we've solved that problem.

Of course 149:0 isn't representative. Just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it won't though. The point is you do have to worry about edge cases. Take the ball possession graphic for example: Picture what that might look like for a color blind person. Not all that helpful.

I know they currently keep two different score boards but I'm not sure that has to be that way (could be though - I don't know). The site I use to check the scores merges them after the game but the FIFA website doesn't.

I'm not trying to be contrary btw, and I'm not sure why you're offended. I said I really like the design, but I do think they removed a lot of flexibility and clarity for no reason by changing most of the layout without putting all that much thought into why things look the way the currently look.

I may not know a lot about football but I do know a lot about design. I didn't even talk about the clock which looks gorgeous but (as others already pointed out) doesn't work that well.

Re: Redesigning The World Cup 2014 Brazil

#58
post #20

I'm used to the visual design of ARD/ZDF in Germany. Thoughts: * One team is "above" the other. This implies ranking between the teams. Who decides who's on top of the other? Imho a bad idea. * The clock is unnecessarily bloated. I find the added visual markers distracting. The stoppage time is misleading, because additional play time is not a stopwatch or a timer . It is merely a suggestion and while most judges adh…

In American sports, the home team is always on the bottom. "New York playing at Dallas."

If what @surreal says in a sister comment is true, then they could do the same thing for FIFA.

Re: Redesigning The World Cup 2014 Brazil

#59
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> LTR doesn't imply ranking because we read from left to right (IMHO). When we name our company you won't mind if we put my name first then. > FYI, the highest score in a football match is 149:0 I don't think non-televised protest matches matter. The EPL (probably the most watched league in the world) has literally never produced a double digit scoring match (that's approx. 7980 matches). > And even during a world cu…

> When we name our company you won't mind if we put my name first then. That's an old problem really. Somebody has to go first. Home team over away team, alphabetical order, etc. I think we've solved that problem. Of course 149:0 isn't representative. Just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it won't though. The point is you do have to worry about edge cases. Take the ball possession graphic for example: Picture…

You don't have to design around the 0% case, so long as you functionally handle it as this design does.

Incidentally, I'm pretty sure I've seen one of the Spanish stations use the vertical score format, a quick search turns up this (Barcelona vs Real Madrid) [1].

> I know they currently keep two different score boards but I'm not sure that has to be that way

It does have to be, because goals are infrequent it's unfair to add 3 or more goals to a teams tally, the goals can be used to differentiate between teams with the same points in league systems. There's also essentially no limit to the number of penalties that can be taken.

I'm not arguing for this design (though I do like some aspects of it), I'm just defending it against what I see as illegitimate criticism.

[1] http://a3.mzstatic.com/us/r1000/120/Purple/da/d0/4c/mzl.wlqf...

Re: Redesigning The World Cup 2014 Brazil

#60
post #58
post #20

I'm used to the visual design of ARD/ZDF in Germany. Thoughts: * One team is "above" the other. This implies ranking between the teams. Who decides who's on top of the other? Imho a bad idea. * The clock is unnecessarily bloated. I find the added visual markers distracting. The stoppage time is misleading, because additional play time is not a stopwatch or a timer . It is merely a suggestion and while most judges adh…

In American sports, the home team is always on the bottom. "New York playing at Dallas." If what @surreal says in a sister comment is true, then they could do the same thing for FIFA.

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