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NSA classifies Linux Journal readers as extremists

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Re: NSA classifies Linux Journal readers as extremists

#51
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're nuts if you think there's significant overlap between yours and the activities of the people responsible for things like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents,_20...

So the NSA is nuts then? Because that's what this leak seems to be implying. I have some pretty strange internet searches as well, but the cat is already out of the bag on that one I guess.

Because that's what this leak seems to be implying.

Are you looking at the evidence or the articles written about it? Because the evidence is simply that there exists a method to select Tor-related traffic out of a stream. That alone is nothing. You know very little about what the input is or where the output goes, or what conclusions are drawn by the people analyzing it.

To reach the paranoid conclusions that are getting such traction around here one has to presume that the same institution competent enough to construct this collection apparatus is so fantastically braindead as to make, on a continuing basis, elementary mistakes of analysis on the data that would undermine both their avowed purpose and whatever totalitarian scheming one wishes to imagine is "really" going on. Mistakes which, somehow, miraculously, every single reader with the slightest bit of understanding of the subject matter detects and avoids! I don't buy it.

Re: NSA classifies Linux Journal readers as extremists

#52
post #29
post #4

The NSA's problem is that new threats are a form of innovation, but that it's hard to predict innovation, and harder to target surveillance towards people planning a dangerous activity if nobody has seen that activity before. New ideas are a threat. So perhaps their method is to define Normal, and then monitor everybody Abnormal, on the basis that dangerous innovation is more likely to come from the Abnormal. Enthusi…

I could see a group of analyst deducting that people interested in traffic privacy fall into two groups. Technology intent and nefarious intent. If you were looking for people with nefarious intent, then that would lead you to monitor the tools that those in the nefarious group would use. This article feels very much like link bait for the technology activist. You don't put a DUI checkpoint outside the library you pu…

But what if they view the technologists as "incidentally" aiding the group with "nefarious intent". Remember a US president in our lifetime said: "Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists."[1]

The treatment of Jacob Appelbaum[2] and David Miranda[3] suggests that members of US/UK Government may believe that if one provides "incidental help" to the current ideological enemies of the US you are a terrorist/extremist or at the very least targetable under terrorism laws (Miranda was detained under schedule 7 of the Terrorism Act).

[1]: http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/200...

[2]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Appelbaum#Detention_and_i...

[3]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Greenwald#Detention_of_Da...

Re: NSA classifies Linux Journal readers as extremists

#53
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're nuts if you think there's significant overlap between yours and the activities of the people responsible for things like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents,_20...

Don't tell me, tell the intelligence services as they are the ones who don't know that.

I'm telling you because you're the one that thinks you're a target.

Re: NSA classifies Linux Journal readers as extremists

#55
post #14

The depressing part for me is that I've started to consider what I search for on a daily basis and how that might look...essentially they are starting to make me paranoid. Over the last few months I've googled Numerous Weapon Systems (I have a fascination with WW1, WWII and Cold War history - stuff like Black Arrow etc). Insurgencies during the British Empire Electronics (want to get back into and saw a fun project t…

That is one way that thought control works. Religion uses this, "don't think naughty thoughts, God will record it and you'll pay for it later". NSA is God except that NSA exists and is real. Here your search is a bit like your thoughts. Any of those things you listed, possibly could have landed you on the "naughty list". So now you start to really worry about what you search for. If you can't research or find info ab…

[deleted]

Re: NSA classifies Linux Journal readers as extremists

#56
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could see a group of analyst deducting that people interested in traffic privacy fall into two groups. Technology intent and nefarious intent. If you were looking for people with nefarious intent, then that would lead you to monitor the tools that those in the nefarious group would use. This article feels very much like link bait for the technology activist. You don't put a DUI checkpoint outside the library you pu…

But what if they view the technologists as "incidentally" aiding the group with "nefarious intent". Remember a US president in our lifetime said: "Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists."[1] The treatment of Jacob Appelbaum[2] and David Miranda[3] suggests that members of US/UK Government may believe that if one provides "incidental help" to the current ideological enemies of the US you are a terroris…

Policy aside, as stated.

This is exactly who an intelligent group of analyst would target for completion of their task.

The problem is that you misconstruing the They that are policy makers and the they that are the individuals that wrote these configuration files. The transfer of little theys actions onto big theys policy is flawed logic.

If I told you to find a bug in a large code base, there are two gross options. Scour the code yourself(xkey) or talk to an original author(JA). Those tasked with monitoring TOR obviously chose to try both approaches.

The value of a target always dictates the cost tolerance of the acquisition process. ie detain JA at political cost.

Lastly, the inference that JA detention was something other that a collection action and somehow a "terrorist" designation is disingenuous.

Re: NSA classifies Linux Journal readers as extremists

#57
What about SELinux http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security-Enhanced_Linux

"The SELinux project was merged into the Linux Kernel back in 2003"

It's still listed on the NSA website in several areas: http://www.nsa.gov/research/_files/selinux/papers/x/x.shtml

To be honest though, if someone was downloading tails from region of know terrorist activity and such systems are actively promoted amongst terrorist sites then it obviously makes for a good target. But the Linux Journal ..comon.

Re: NSA classifies Linux Journal readers as extremists

#58
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could see a group of analyst deducting that people interested in traffic privacy fall into two groups. Technology intent and nefarious intent. If you were looking for people with nefarious intent, then that would lead you to monitor the tools that those in the nefarious group would use. This article feels very much like link bait for the technology activist. You don't put a DUI checkpoint outside the library you pu…

But what if they view the technologists as "incidentally" aiding the group with "nefarious intent". Remember a US president in our lifetime said: "Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists."[1] The treatment of Jacob Appelbaum[2] and David Miranda[3] suggests that members of US/UK Government may believe that if one provides "incidental help" to the current ideological enemies of the US you are a terroris…

Schedule 7 of the Terrorism Act of 2000 does not require a person to be a "terrorist" or imply that anybody detained under its authority is thought to be one.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/11/schedule/7

Re: NSA classifies Linux Journal readers as extremists

#59
post #39
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also makes you wonder what those "terrorists" had actually done to warrant being captured.

Being stupid suckers for set up set pieces, or searching for pressure cooker based recipes for quinoa (not enough to be arrested, sorry, gitmo'ized, but enough to be questioned)[0]. [0] HN comments on "Pressure cookers, backpacks, and quinoa, oh my" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6140545 EDIT: @csandreasen I did not mean to imply that the quinoa incident was NSA related, but to give an example of what could hap…

The "surveillance state looking for pressure cooker searches" ended up being complete paranoia and shoddy journalism. Yes, a New York man was visited by the police and questioned by local police regarding his Google searches for "pressure cookers" and "backpacks". It turned out that it was not an Orwellian surveillance state that tracked him down, but rather that the local police were following up when his employer viewed its own network logs, became suspicious and alerted the authorities.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/08/02/michele_ca...

Re: NSA classifies Linux Journal readers as extremists

#60
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what if they view the technologists as "incidentally" aiding the group with "nefarious intent". Remember a US president in our lifetime said: "Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists."[1] The treatment of Jacob Appelbaum[2] and David Miranda[3] suggests that members of US/UK Government may believe that if one provides "incidental help" to the current ideological enemies of the US you are a terroris…

Policy aside, as stated. This is exactly who an intelligent group of analyst would target for completion of their task. The problem is that you misconstruing the They that are policy makers and the they that are the individuals that wrote these configuration files. The transfer of little theys actions onto big theys policy is flawed logic. If I told you to find a bug in a large code base, there are two gross options.…

As an aside the GWB quote was in reference to nation states.
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