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Dart 1.5

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Re: Dart 1.5

#51

Post by macspoofing »

rwallace wrote: post #25
msie wrote: post #3

I was at last year's Google IO and a lot of people were asking the Dart representatives about whether Dart was going to be supported in Chrome (not just Chromium). We were told the team was holding off because of performance considerations. It has been ONE WHOLE YEAR since then.

I'd much rather they keep holding off. We've had more than enough of big companies fragmenting the ecosystem by making their own languages, file formats etc. because they can. As things currently stand, Dart compiles to JavaScript, which is exactly the right way to do it; that way it's a tool that's available if you want to use it, but it doesn't screw up interoperability.

>As things currently stand, Dart compiles to JavaScript, which is exactly the right way to do it

That was never going to change. The idea, as far as I understand it, is for Dart to be executed natively where there is a Dart VM. Where there isn't, the dart2js output would be executed. The DOM itself would be unchanged. I think that's reasonable. In fact, more than reasonable, that's just a good idea.

Re: Dart 1.5

#53

Post by spankalee »

kasperset wrote: post #7

I would like to use it but Javascript Frameworks and libraries are being developed so rapidly that it gets difficult to choose Dart and plus it is yet to mature. I may be wrong.

Dart's been very stable for a while now, and has a really good library ecosystem already.

Personally, I wouldn't worry too much about JavaScript frameworks evolving rapidly, just go with anything the supports Web Components. In JavaScript that would be Polymer, X-Tags or Bosonic. In Dart that's Polymer. Or, in either you can write directly to the platform APIs without a library.

In my mind there is BWC and AWC: Before Web Components and After Web Components. The world or web apps is undergoing a paradigm shift on par with AJAX right now, and I wouldn't use any framework that doesn't support Web Components.

Re: Dart 1.5

#54

Post by amartya916 »

ben336 wrote: post #2

Is anybody using Dart for significant production code outside of Google? (Not mocking, genuinely curious to hear whats being done with it)

Yup. At Sendbloom.co we have used Dart to build a tool that is used by sales people to send out email campaigns. The tool is inspired by quartz composer/Max MSP's interaction paradigms (drag-and-drop visual programming). As someone else mentioned, Dart code can be fairly verbose, but it is very readable and programming with it is a joy when compared to writing vanilla javascript/jquery. I'd be happy to answer if you have any other questions about Dart.

Re: Dart 1.5

#55

Post by conradk »

josteink wrote: post #21
caycep wrote: post #12

This may be a noob question on my part, but my understanding is Dart and Rust are 2 separate efforts to come up with something to supplant javascript?

No. Rust is a systems language meant to displace c and c++. Dart is Google's me-too attempt at creating something which compiles to JavaScript. It borrows heavily from java and generates equally bloated code. OK, so maybe last sentence is a bit over the top critical, but last I checked, hello world in dart rendered in at 100kb [1] of js and dependencies. [1] http://lostechies.com/jimmybogard/2011/10/12/the-dart-hello…

Dart is not meant to enable building "hello world" apps though.

Re: Dart 1.5

#56

Post by lukasm »

munificent wrote: post #35

Hi! I'm on the Dart team. If you'd like, I'll try to answer any questions you have.

Planning to build NodeJS like env in Dart?

I'd like to Dart to happen. What worries my is that Dart has Java EE mentality. Hipster programmers won't touch it and lack of traction may kill the project. What's the solution? Performance may be a great USP. Rewrite Gmail in Dart, so tools like Streak, Rapportive and other extensions won't kill the performance.

Re: Dart 1.5

#57

Post by daw___ »

_glass wrote: post #52
munificent wrote: post #35

Hi! I'm on the Dart team. If you'd like, I'll try to answer any questions you have.

Is there any chance there will be more support for Dart on Android?[1] [1] More than https://code.google.com/p/dart/wiki/Android

You may want to follow this thread: Support building native Android applications with Dart

https://code.google.com/p/dart/issues/detail?id=19266

Re: Dart 1.5

#59

Post by macspoofing »

josteink wrote: post #21
caycep wrote: post #12

This may be a noob question on my part, but my understanding is Dart and Rust are 2 separate efforts to come up with something to supplant javascript?

No. Rust is a systems language meant to displace c and c++. Dart is Google's me-too attempt at creating something which compiles to JavaScript. It borrows heavily from java and generates equally bloated code. OK, so maybe last sentence is a bit over the top critical, but last I checked, hello world in dart rendered in at 100kb [1] of js and dependencies. [1] http://lostechies.com/jimmybogard/2011/10/12/the-dart-hello…

>It borrows heavily from java and generates equally bloated code.

I don't mind Java, but I don't see how a) being compared to Java is a negative given the alternative is JavaScript (which as a language is terrible) and b) how Dart borrows heavily from Java.

Re b), there are enough differences between the two (e.g. dart has optional static typing, mixins and js-type closures, and is single-threaded and interpreted) that the similarities are completely superficial.

Re: Dart 1.5

#60

Post by azakai »

macspoofing wrote: post #51
rwallace wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd much rather they keep holding off. We've had more than enough of big companies fragmenting the ecosystem by making their own languages, file formats etc. because they can. As things currently stand, Dart compiles to JavaScript, which is exactly the right way to do it; that way it's a tool that's available if you want to use it, but it doesn't screw up interoperability.

>As things currently stand, Dart compiles to JavaScript, which is exactly the right way to do it That was never going to change. The idea, as far as I understand it, is for Dart to be executed natively where there is a Dart VM. Where there isn't, the dart2js output would be executed. The DOM itself would be unchanged. I think that's reasonable. In fact, more than reasonable, that's just a good idea.

The danger is that the VM has different semantics (for example, integer overflow) than dart2js code. If the same dart code sometimes runs in JS and sometimes in the dart VM, people are going to hit weird bugs.

Also, if it is possible to ship dart code by itself - without the JS fallback - then we are going to see sites that don't bother with the JS fallback, and those sites are only going to work in chrome.

For both of those reasons, the dart VM is somewhat worrying from the perspective of the openness of the web.

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