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Protests against Uber are heating up in Europe

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Re: Protests against Uber are heating up in Europe

#51

Post by davidw »

Xylakant wrote: post #48
davidw wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't you think that's a bit simplistic? In some places, like here in Italy, the taxi folks are pretty nasty: http://www.corriere.it/Primo_Piano/Cronache/2006/07_Luglio/2... Short English version: economist and professor writes an editorial advocating liberalizing taxis, and some taxi drivers printed a flyer with his face, home address and phone number, inviting taxis to honk when they go by his house. And don't forg…

Uber tries to sell on the same, simplistic narrative: We're disruptive, we're good! Berlin for example has a very different Taxi market - it's mostly small players, 1-3 cars (there's roughly 7600 taxi in Berlin, distributed over around 3000 companies). Still, Uber tries to sell based on "we're breaking a monopoly" while skirting the regulation and strong-arming the competition. The recent injunction against Uber in B…

The taxi drivers in Italy are a reasonably powerful lobbying force. When they don't get their way, they get pretty nasty in lots of ways: parking their cars in the middle of already crowded roads and things like that.

My point was that the analysis of Uber was a bit simplistic in that there are some positive aspects to wrecking what was once a cozy monopoly created by regulations that are not there for the customer, but for the entrenched industry. It's probably different in different places, which is why a more complex, case by case analysis is likely needed.

Re: Protests against Uber are heating up in Europe

#52

Post by Djehngo »

petercooper wrote: post #22
basicallydan wrote: post #4

I'd like to highlight this part of the article: > In several of the protests, drivers aren't specifically targeting Uber and other service providers, but what they say is outmoded regulation that makes it hard for them to compete. Part of Uber's challenge in Europe is the variety of regulations governing the continent, even among the 28-member European Union, each of which has different unions and different rules. It…

I generally agree, although it's not just the disparity in regulations, but that the disadvantages of not being a licensed taxi are fading. (You probably know all of the below being in the UK but I thought I'd flesh it out for those overseas.) Black taxi and minicab operators have been in competition for decades, with regulation finally coming to minicabs about 10 years ago, and an uneasy but mostly quiet co-existenc…

Every time I have gotten an Uber in London the car has been a Toyota Prius, I don't know if that particular car is still congestion charge exempt but even if it isn't what's to stop minicabs all starting to drive vehicles which are exempt?

Re: Protests against Uber are heating up in Europe

#53

Post by Silhouette »

basicallydan wrote: post #32
outrightfree wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

@basicallydan - related to your point about The Knowledge. Doesn't satnav make that test somewhat anachronistic now?

It depends largely on the satnav. London is such a complex city with a lot of nooks and crannies that people don't really understand and that satnav may or may not know about. Black cab drivers are also privy to the experience of knowing what places are busy when, and why, which satnav tools often can do too but not necessarily to the same degree of accuracy as a black cab driver whose job is to think on their feet a…

Also, in the UK taxis can go many places where regular motorists aren't allowed, particularly in big cities like London. It seems unlikely that a satnav, even one that provides some sort of real time traffic information, will provide accurate information about expected journey times taking restricted routes into account.

Re: Protests against Uber are heating up in Europe

#54

Post by avz »

It boils down to the simple question:

Would you rather live in a world where the service, its quality, reliability, cost and professionalism is that of the current taxi services or the newcomers like Uber?

I have personally been ripped off, deceived about the route and pricing and forced to put up with rude drivers and operators so many times and in so many places that I cheer any competition, be it public transport or car sharing.

Re: Protests against Uber are heating up in Europe

#55

Post by vdaniuk »

atmosx wrote: post #50
vdaniuk wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is that "you" that is supposedly don't give a shit? What's even more important, the tech disruption is coming to the vast range of industries and many jobs will be obsolete much sooner than most expect.

Sorry, might have made it clear. By 'you' I was referring to governments. What do you do as a government.

Cab drivers is just one small segment. That is a very good point to consider and even we, as a collective hivemind, on the HN don't pay enough attention to the problem of extreme rate at which jobs will diminish in the future. Start-ups won't solve that.

If we don't find a scalable, sustainable, viral business model to disrupt capitalism and focus on positive externalities humanity may be heading for a disaster and this one won't be a surprise.

Re: Protests against Uber are heating up in Europe

#56

Post by dagw »

jsudhams wrote: post #33

Not sure about the UK cabs way of work. But what stops them being a UBER cab driver as well? Isn't it a additional channel? Like in radio taxi can't they simple make themselves busy when they get UBER call so that the cab company does not assign them any additional pickup/drop?

At least in Sweden, to be a cab you have to clearly mark your car as a taxi, clearly post your rates in the window and have a verified taxi meter in your car to make sure you actually charge the posted rates, and Uber doesn't want to do any of those things.

Re: Protests against Uber are heating up in Europe

#57

Post by dalore »

rikf wrote: post #16
basicallydan wrote: post #4

I'd like to highlight this part of the article: > In several of the protests, drivers aren't specifically targeting Uber and other service providers, but what they say is outmoded regulation that makes it hard for them to compete. Part of Uber's challenge in Europe is the variety of regulations governing the continent, even among the 28-member European Union, each of which has different unions and different rules. It…

As a London native for almost 10 years I cant tell you how many times I have been ripped off by black cab drivers taking longer routes then they could have. I also cant tell you how difficult it can be at certain times to find a taxi to take you home so people inevitably end up using unlicensed "mini cabs" to get home. This all because the licensing regulations are stuck in the stone age. Hopefully Uber will drag Lon…

Minicabs are usually licenses, look for the logo on the car. Can get them pretty much any high street. They are banned from picking up passengers on the street but a loophole is they hang outside of major clubs and you can ask the club for a taxi which they can then pick you up.

Or do you actually mean the unlicensed ones of people going around saying "oi, need a cab?"

Re: Protests against Uber are heating up in Europe

#58

Post by dalore »

basicallydan wrote: post #4

I'd like to highlight this part of the article: > In several of the protests, drivers aren't specifically targeting Uber and other service providers, but what they say is outmoded regulation that makes it hard for them to compete. Part of Uber's challenge in Europe is the variety of regulations governing the continent, even among the 28-member European Union, each of which has different unions and different rules. It…

The article barely mentions it, but you can take a much shorter version of the knowledge that only covers a specific area. Means that black cab can only pick up from the area they did the test (but can drive outside). Quite often it means that cab driver doesn't know squat and uses a GPS anyway.

The ones that do the full test don't like the guys that did the short test.

Re: Protests against Uber are heating up in Europe

#59

Post by petercooper »

Djehngo wrote: post #52
petercooper wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I generally agree, although it's not just the disparity in regulations, but that the disadvantages of not being a licensed taxi are fading. (You probably know all of the below being in the UK but I thought I'd flesh it out for those overseas.) Black taxi and minicab operators have been in competition for decades, with regulation finally coming to minicabs about 10 years ago, and an uneasy but mostly quiet co-existenc…

Every time I have gotten an Uber in London the car has been a Toyota Prius, I don't know if that particular car is still congestion charge exempt but even if it isn't what's to stop minicabs all starting to drive vehicles which are exempt?

They are licensed. Licensed minicabs of any type are currently exempt, I believe. The rule could simply be that all minicabs are subjected to the fee, it'd be enforced by license plate as it is for other motorists.
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