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Tessel: A microcontroller that runs JavaScript

tessel.io

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Re: Tessel: A microcontroller that runs JavaScript

#51

Post by dkersten »

bsder wrote: post #20
Timmmmbob wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to write in low-level C. You can write in high level C++, which is vastly preferable to javascript! Or hell, why not write in Lua! It's what this apparently transpiles to, and is much nicer. The only reason javascript became popular is because it was the only option on the web. Why does that mean we would want to use it when we have better options?

> You can write in high level C++, which is vastly preferable to javascript! First, C++ compilers are not available everywhere. Second, C++ compilers do not always implement all corners of the language on embedded systems. Third, C++ is better than Javascript? That's going to take some explanation. > Or hell, why not write in Lua! Lua has it's own share of "Wat". 1-based indexing when a non-trivial amount of your stu…

> First, C++ compilers are not available everywhere.

Neither is javascript. If both are available for this micro, then his statement is as valid as yours.

> Second, C++ compilers do not always implement all corners of the language on embedded systems.

I've done a good bit of embedded programming in C and I wouldn't need all of C++ to make life a lot easier.

> Third, C++ is better than Javascript? That's going to take some explanation.

To-may-to/to-mah-to. Whichever way you want to spin it (C++ > javascript or javascript > C++) is going to take some explanation.

> but Javascript isn't that bad

No. But its also not as that great in comparison to how popular it is. Its certainly improved a lot since the early days, but it still has some pretty significant warts. Most languages do, of course, so if this is an issue or not kinda depends on the "third" above.

> Now, all that having been said, this isn't exactly impressive. A 180MHz ARM with 32MB of flash and 32MB of RAM is not a small processor. With that level of power, there are lots of options.

Indeed. I wonder how much overhead this has compared to running C on the same thing. I have nothing to back it up and certainly don't have time to benchmark, but I'm convinced I could write a forth interpreter running on a 60MHz PIC24E that would have competitive performance to this thing. Maybe I wouldn't beat it, but I reckon I could come close enough.

Re: Tessel: A microcontroller that runs JavaScript

#52

Post by gdewilde »

EpicEng wrote: post #36
noodle wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lower barrier of entry for people interested in playing around with hardware development. No breadboards and wires, only pluggable modules. Javascript instead of C.

So...people who want to play around with hardware development without actually learning anything about hardware development? How is that helpful? Why not just learn what you need to learn and do it right the first time?

You are right. We should design hardware in javascript.

Re: Tessel: A microcontroller that runs JavaScript

#53

Post by dkersten »

aikah wrote: post #21
GuiA wrote: post #3

$100 for something vastly inferior to a Raspberry Pi, Beaglebone, etc. that cost 1/2 to 1/3 of that. What am I missing here?

Tessel is marketed as a "micro-controller" while the PI as a "micro-computer". Javascript marketing aside,it would be interesting to know if one can reproduce all Tessel capabilites with a Pi + extensions. I dont think the "but it runs nodejs modules!" matter that much,if you're going to write for embedded devices,you need to go low level and seek optimizations like crazy.The stuff has like 32MB of ram,you cant do mu…

Tessel is marketed as a "micro-controller" while the PI as a "micro-computer"

Its funny when a micro-controller is more expensive than a micro-computer... :(

Re: Tessel: A microcontroller that runs JavaScript

#54

Post by SpikedCola »

mschuster91 wrote: post #42
GuiA wrote: post #3

$100 for something vastly inferior to a Raspberry Pi, Beaglebone, etc. that cost 1/2 to 1/3 of that. What am I missing here?

It has WiFi, which requires FCC testing for the US market as well as compliance certificates for the European area. These certifications and checks are f...ing costly. RPi/Arduino in contrast only have wired or no networking, thus eliminating a huge part of the upfront costs (e.g. in Europe you then only need a CE certificate, which you can either issue without testing and be liable if your module doesn't meet the st…

You only need to undergo FCC testing if the module you use is not already certified. You can buy "FCC-approved" modules that are "ready to sell".

I ran into something similar with BT4.0 modules - had to convince the client that a $3 module, while cheap up front, couldn't be sold without spending $$$ on certification. Eventually they went with a $7 one.

Re: Tessel: A microcontroller that runs JavaScript

#55

Post by cobookman »

I wonder how the timing on the micro-controller is. Is the JavaScript still async? While JavaScript +/-10ms is fine on a computer, when messing with signals that really limits you. Mind you this could be overcome by adding some flag before the code to specify it to be run synchronously...or something like that.

Re: Tessel: A microcontroller that runs JavaScript

#56

Post by foxylad »

mschuster91 wrote: post #42
GuiA wrote: post #3

$100 for something vastly inferior to a Raspberry Pi, Beaglebone, etc. that cost 1/2 to 1/3 of that. What am I missing here?

It has WiFi, which requires FCC testing for the US market as well as compliance certificates for the European area. These certifications and checks are f...ing costly. RPi/Arduino in contrast only have wired or no networking, thus eliminating a huge part of the upfront costs (e.g. in Europe you then only need a CE certificate, which you can either issue without testing and be liable if your module doesn't meet the st…

Yes, but the Electric Imp has wifi built in for $30.

Ironically it uses the Squirrel language to program it, which I think was a mistake - I found it very unproductive.

Re: Tessel: A microcontroller that runs JavaScript

#57

Post by joezydeco »

joshvm wrote: post #34
noodle wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lower barrier of entry for people interested in playing around with hardware development. No breadboards and wires, only pluggable modules. Javascript instead of C.

I think for many people cost is the most important factor. People who bought the RPi did so because it was so cheap that it was practically an impulse purchase. Disregarding the actual device price, the other issue here is the expensive module pricing. Let's face it, if you're buying this because you want to do things the simple way then you're going to be buying modules. Ambient light + MicroSD card? That'll be $50…

The volume cost of parts that make smartphones, remote controls, wifi dongles, etc so darn cheap for the average consumer do not scale downward when you're only making 100 or 1000 of something.

Re: Tessel: A microcontroller that runs JavaScript

#58

Post by asdfs »

mschuster91 wrote: post #44
goodbyegti wrote: post #13

It's absurdly expensive, even more so the modules. Looking at the BT module, the BLE112 can be purchased for $15 in quantities of 1. So you pay $35 for a small PCB, some pin headers and probably a wrapper around a UART.

As written above, everything related to radio has huge upfront costs in certifications. These costs are once-applicable, so if you're making a million-unit BT dongle, then the certification costs per device are fractions of cents. Here with thousand-unit series, the cost per device is massively higher.

Isn't the BLE112 already certified? Or does integrating it into a product require you to get the entire product certified?

Re: Tessel: A microcontroller that runs JavaScript

#59

Post by Sanddancer »

mschuster91 wrote: post #42
GuiA wrote: post #3

$100 for something vastly inferior to a Raspberry Pi, Beaglebone, etc. that cost 1/2 to 1/3 of that. What am I missing here?

It has WiFi, which requires FCC testing for the US market as well as compliance certificates for the European area. These certifications and checks are f...ing costly. RPi/Arduino in contrast only have wired or no networking, thus eliminating a huge part of the upfront costs (e.g. in Europe you then only need a CE certificate, which you can either issue without testing and be liable if your module doesn't meet the st…

The base Arduino doesn't have networking. However, there are models, like the Yun, that do have wifi and/or ethernet and are less than the cost of the Tessel.

Re: Tessel: A microcontroller that runs JavaScript

#60

Post by rtpg »

cobookman wrote: post #55

I wonder how the timing on the micro-controller is. Is the JavaScript still async? While JavaScript +/-10ms is fine on a computer, when messing with signals that really limits you. Mind you this could be overcome by adding some flag before the code to specify it to be run synchronously...or something like that.

nothing in Javascript fundamentally forces IO libraries to be asynchronous, it's just that the domain in which JS is used (Node or Browsers) tend to have a lot of async IO due to networks.
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