The case for banning laptops in the classroom. • Hacker News Board

Re: The case for banning laptops in the classroom.

#51

Post by xemoka » Fri, Jun 06, 2014, 10:52 PM UTC

iak8god wrote: post #43

spodek wrote: post #29

> " A wealth of studies on students’ use of computers in the classroom has accumulated to support this intuition. Among the most famous is a landmark Cornell University study from 2003 called “The Laptop and the Lecture,” wherein half of a class was allowed unfettered access to their computers during a lecture while the other half was asked to keep their laptops closed. " The problem is the lecture! Teachers who don'…

> Teachers who don't engage students -- and lecturing will rarely engage anyone -- are the problem ... If you didn't engage the students, no amount of banning things they care about more than you droning on in front of them will make them care. University students who have no interest in a course's material have no business being enrolled in that course. These are adults who are there voluntarily, and should be expec…

I entirely disagree. You cannot put all the onus on the students when departments and degrees require classes that hold no interest to the pupil.

Sure, I'll give you that this may apply for 4th (and perhaps 3rd) year classes and post grads. However, most entry level courses are mindless drivel and a complete waste of both the student's and instructor's time (English 100 anyone?), although are 'required' to continue on (or get that degree). Academia doesn't fit happily into your little box.

The dryest lecture may not be an excuse to space out, but good luck. You may be the perfect pupil, attentive to every single word a lecturer says for 3 hours—most people though can't even listen and process past 45 minutes. I personally can listen for a while, but get bored... lectures rarely move fast enough for me and can rarely keep my attention unless actually stimulating.

Academics is a two way street, both the pupil and instructor must participate in order for a successful transfer of knowledge. How many instructors have you had that teach their course right from a textbook without anything added? Lazy instructors create lazy and bored students.

Re: The case for banning laptops in the classroom.

#52

Post by dredmorbius » Fri, Jun 06, 2014, 10:55 PM UTC

An aspect of this not covered: being present in the moment. The context is squatting (and physical training), but the lesson is the same:

http://squatrx.blogspot.com/2008/12/being-present.html

Multi-tasking seems to be the way most people nowadays operate, but it doesn't mean people are doing a better job at more things. It means they are addicted to multi-tasking and they are incapable of actually being present for longer than a few moments. Perhaps these people are better at transitioning from one thing to the next, but I wonder if that applies to disparate tasks - my guess is that it doesn't transfer itself particularly well to new, complex skills.

Being able to say "no" to distraction is crucial to the ability to be "in the present". This isn't license to be an a-hole of course, just permission to say to yourself "I have many things I need to do, but I'm going to focus on this ONE THING right now".

Re: The case for banning laptops in the classroom.

#53

Post by BruceIV » Fri, Jun 06, 2014, 11:11 PM UTC

Htsthbjig wrote: post #45

How about teaching students not to distract themselves? I am serious about it. Students are going to live and work with Internet and all distractions. They need this ability that like others it is learned and nurtured. I mean, something like this: http://www.lynda.com/Business-Business-Skills-tutorials/Gett... There are lots of good programs out there. Today this knowledge is as important as Mathematics. Probably mor…

Programming lectures without laptops work great (though it may help for the lecturer has a laptop and can show examples). If you want the students to follow along, that's what lab section is for (at least where I did undergrad, most of the programming classes had one). I've TA'd some of those lab sections, and there are a shocking number of ways the students can fail to manage to follow along with the examples without extensive hand-holding. Which they absolutely should get, and which they absolutely need a computer for, but a lecture with dozens of students and a unit of theory to get through is not the time for it.

Re: The case for banning laptops in the classroom.

#54

Post by pavelrub » Fri, Jun 06, 2014, 11:24 PM UTC

spodek wrote: post #29

> " A wealth of studies on students’ use of computers in the classroom has accumulated to support this intuition. Among the most famous is a landmark Cornell University study from 2003 called “The Laptop and the Lecture,” wherein half of a class was allowed unfettered access to their computers during a lecture while the other half was asked to keep their laptops closed. " The problem is the lecture! Teachers who don'…

And yet you are quoting the description of a study that concluded that closed laptops = better understanding of the lecture, regardless of whether the students find the teacher engaging or not.

Your reply is a bit like saying "the solution to conflicts around the world is for people to love each other". How does one go and apply this solution to make the world a better place now?

It could be the case that the ideal solution is better teachers, but we aren't talking about ideal solutions, we are talking about practical ones. If banning laptops makes student achieve better grades - then it's worth considering doing so.

Re: The case for banning laptops in the classroom.

#55

Post by adwf » Sat, Jun 07, 2014, 12:10 AM UTC

booruguru wrote: post #50

This kind of bullshit drives me crazy. If I chose to spend thousands of dollars so I can goof off during a lecture, that's my prerogative. I don't need some to dictate what's in my best interest. My PowerBook was a huge boon for me in college. I write far better notes with a laptop than with pen and paper. What's more, I was able to multitask in ways that are simply impossible without a computer. If I were to encount…

It's not just about you though. In a lecture of 100+ people on laptops, you're bound to have plenty of distracting people browsing youtube, watching flashy videos or somesuch.

That sort of thing can affect the people around you negatively. In that regard, it's hardly any different than asking the hall to be silent while the lecture is on, rather than everyone chatting out loud.

Re: The case for banning laptops in the classroom.

#56

Post by jawns » Sat, Jun 07, 2014, 12:19 AM UTC

watwut wrote: post #33

jawns wrote: post #8

In the lower grades, I think a case can be made that during the time they are in class, students should not have any other demands on their time. In contrast, with college students, I don't think it's unreasonable to think that -- at least occasionally -- a student may need to "check out" from a lecture momentarily to deal with some pressing business, even if it means that he has to spend time later asking a classmat…

Most pressing mails can wait few hours and lecture will most likely end up after 90 minutes or sooner. Your critical bug will not be solved withing five minutes and campus newspaper's website being down for few hours is no big deal anyway. Finally, I would really like which school newspaper has so hot stories that you have to run to. And if it is really so critical, they can send text message on your muted phone and…

>> campus newspaper's website being down for few hours is no big deal anyway

I'm glad you didn't work for my campus newspaper.

Several other people have echoed your comment that these are things that you can just as easily handle on your phone. But I think that misses the bigger point. If a professor can ban laptops, he can ban phones and tablets and all other communication devices.

My overarching point is that devoting 100% of one's attention to a college lecture is not only not always necessary, but in some cases, not desirable; there are legitimate reasons why a student attending a lecture may want to receive communications, and legitimate reasons why he may wish to respond to those communications immediately.

Re: The case for banning laptops in the classroom.

#57

Post by existencebox » Sat, Jun 07, 2014, 12:37 AM UTC

Htsthbjig wrote: post #47

existencebox wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally would be absolutely hamstrung without a laptop in meetings. My own handwriting is notoriously messy (I am only to blame for not practicing it enough to be any good, but that's almost a tradeoff for working in front of a computer nearly 24/7) and FAR slower than typing. I'm also unable to use text editor style shortcuts,reformat after the fact for clarity, or readily keep track off/move around documents.…

The problem with laptops is keyboard noise. Compare note taking with keyboard typing in a class with several dozen people and you will see noise is a big problem if you are the teacher. I personally believe the best solution is audio record anything the teacher says, automatically transcribe it and just draw diagrams and stuff. But it will take some time before people start doing it.

I realize this is one of the "better" examples, but it's certainly close to home for HN, but would you really argue that recorded audio and drawn diagrams are more useful for CS/algorithms courses than some typed snippets and pseudocode? That was at least where having a laptop in class really paid off for me.

Re: The case for banning laptops in the classroom.

#58

Post by victorhooi » Sat, Jun 07, 2014, 1:39 AM UTC

vlunkr wrote: post #21

akuma73 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what your phone is for.

I had a couple of professors that didn't allow cell phone use in their classes, and it was annoying, for all the reasons the original poster listed. I can understand not letting high school students use phones, but in college you are an adult with sometimes conflicting responsibilities.

As other posters have said, just leave the damn room to take a call.

But seriously, are you so incredibly important that you cannot spend 60 minutes listening to a lecture?

This generation (and yes I know that includes me) seem to have an incredibly inflated sense of self-worth, as if they're the centre of the universe.

It's like those idiots who can't stop texting in the damn movie.

The world will keep spinning if you don't answer that tweet for an hour - trust me.

I had this exact same argument with a friend last week when we went to a three-hatted restaurant, and she insisted she needed to check her phone every few minutes, because apparently people would "panic" if they couldn't get in touch with her via chat.

Surely if you're paying $200 for a dinner, you can at least enjoy the dinner and company around you without needing to tweet every 5 minutes.

Re: The case for banning laptops in the classroom.

#59

Post by stefan_kendall3 » Sat, Jun 07, 2014, 11:55 AM UTC

I used class time mostly as a chance to VPN and work, for the scant amount of time I was actually in class.

I did not give two shits about the lectures; the material is presented better in the book. Professors, from my perspective, were paid to administer tests.

Re: The case for banning laptops in the classroom.

#60

Post by JoeAltmaier » Sat, Jun 07, 2014, 11:59 AM UTC

stefan_kendall3 wrote: post #59

I used class time mostly as a chance to VPN and work, for the scant amount of time I was actually in class. I did not give two shits about the lectures; the material is presented better in the book. Professors, from my perspective, were paid to administer tests.

Then you'd have no trouble skipping lectures altogether, and spending the time with your laptop in the library etc.