Earlier quoted context omitted.
How necessary are the 7am-11pm hours really? Could the banks do just as good of a job if they hired more people who worked 40 hour weeks? (Increased salary costs notwithstanding)
I work at a law firm specializing in IPO. I had the same thought in mind when I joined. Hiring more people does help but there will still not be 40 hour work weeks. In many instances, some people in the team has built up the knowledge on a particular part of the deal that it is difficult to outsource since it would be much faster for the person to complete the work themselves. Hiring more people also means that the i…
How Wall Street recruits so many Ivy League grads
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Re: How Wall Street recruits so many Ivy League grads
#52I'm genuinely curious -- what do these recruits actually do while working these massive hours? Is there really 80-120 hours of desk-based work to be done, or does office politics or fraternizing play a role in those hourly figures?
I've worked for banks to 15 years or so, but always on the sales and trading side, rather than the investment banking side. In general, I like the industry. However, I've come to believe that the 90 hour analyst work week is hazing, pure and simple. It doesn't really matter what they're doing. Being a banker is a pretty plum job and it simply weeds out people who don't really want the job that badly. The other aspect…
Re: How Wall Street recruits so many Ivy League grads
#53Wall Street is NOT building up America but is instead weakening America by causing a Great Brain Drain from every other vital industry. It is a cancer that's eating away America. Because America is losing the brightest kids who could've really shined and played vital leadership roles in other industries, I feel American industries are falling behind. Some quotes from the article that you should remember: 1. "so many…
I don't want to spend a lot of time working on each point within your post. However I do think you discount the value that finance brings. Access to capital and efficient distribution of capital are tremendously powerful. Describing what finance does as just pushing paper is like describing the startup community as just writing useless code.
Re: How Wall Street recruits so many Ivy League grads
#54Wall Street is NOT building up America but is instead weakening America by causing a Great Brain Drain from every other vital industry. It is a cancer that's eating away America. Because America is losing the brightest kids who could've really shined and played vital leadership roles in other industries, I feel American industries are falling behind. Some quotes from the article that you should remember: 1. "so many…
I don't want to spend a lot of time working on each point within your post. However I do think you discount the value that finance brings. Access to capital and efficient distribution of capital are tremendously powerful. Describing what finance does as just pushing paper is like describing the startup community as just writing useless code.
I don't care if Facebook/Google/Twitter don't end up with top brains. But I am concerned GM/Boeing/Tesla/SpaceX are not getting the top brains as much as they should.
Re: How Wall Street recruits so many Ivy League grads
#55Wall Street is NOT building up America but is instead weakening America by causing a Great Brain Drain from every other vital industry. It is a cancer that's eating away America. Because America is losing the brightest kids who could've really shined and played vital leadership roles in other industries, I feel American industries are falling behind. Some quotes from the article that you should remember: 1. "so many…
Ivy-league grads go into finance because it's an industry that really values their particular pedigree, and is willing to pay for it. Engineering, on the other hand, really doesn't. Engineering companies aren't paying $200k bonuses to kids just a few years out of an Ivy-league school. Indeed, it's pretty hard to set yourself apart, as an engineer, in a way that allows you to earn even twice as much as another enginee…
OTHER industries value the Ivy-league grads just as much. It's just that the budget doesn't allow paying at the rate to compete with Wall Street. That's the problem.
Re: How Wall Street recruits so many Ivy League grads
#56Investment banking gets a pretty bad reputation in the media, and there are many misconceptions about the industry. I don't think this article was terrible, but I do disagree with a few of the points. For the record, I'm an undergraduate student at a non-Ivy but huge feeder into investment banks. > They're going because they hate risk and are terrified about what to do next and Wall Street has figured out a way to ca…
Re: How Wall Street recruits so many Ivy League grads
#57Re: How Wall Street recruits so many Ivy League grads
#58Wall Street is NOT building up America but is instead weakening America by causing a Great Brain Drain from every other vital industry. It is a cancer that's eating away America. Because America is losing the brightest kids who could've really shined and played vital leadership roles in other industries, I feel American industries are falling behind. Some quotes from the article that you should remember: 1. "so many…
>These are kids really really smart, socially adjusted (enough to be accepted by Ivy League), and hard working. If they entered science/medicine/engineering/etc, they would've added great positive impact. IMHO I believe the kids the banks are stealing from science/medicine/engineering/etc, are not kids that would truly follow those paths. Personally once I found IT I didnt want to leave and nothing was going to deter…
Re: How Wall Street recruits so many Ivy League grads
#59Wall Street is NOT building up America but is instead weakening America by causing a Great Brain Drain from every other vital industry. It is a cancer that's eating away America. Because America is losing the brightest kids who could've really shined and played vital leadership roles in other industries, I feel American industries are falling behind. Some quotes from the article that you should remember: 1. "so many…
I agree that students may be able to have a stronger impact as a doctor, scientist, etc. But this is more a criticism of K-12 education, not the wall street industry! I've never heard of a high schooler thinking "should I grow up and be a doctor, or should I be an investment banker?" What I have heard is "I'm smart but not very good at math, so I'll major in business." We do NOT have many students choosing investment banking over STEM during their junior year of college in the midst of recruiting. These decisions are being made during senior year of high school when they're thinking about what to major in.
> And now they are abandoning these vital industries that actually produce something for an industry that is basically pushing papers around and printing money in the process.
Basically pushing papers around and printing money? Are you kidding me? If investment banks are so useless, why would essentially all large corporations (including Apple, Facebook, Yahoo, etc.) hire investment banks to assist in raising debt and equity or to facilitate mergers and acquisitions? By suggesting that investment banks are "printing money," you've shown that you aren't well-informed on the industry.
If your criticism is coming from the recent financial crisis, then sure, the investment banks due deserve some of the blame. But anybody who says investment banks are exclusively responsible and refuses to point out the mistakes by credit rating agencies, insurance companies, the federal government, and even US citizens needs to find an objective source and study the events leading up to the crisis.
> I know we live in free economy society and all that but I think we need to find a way to 'regulate' how the wall street recruits.
Is someone being harmed? Given that the students entering investment banks are fairly intelligent and coming out of prestigious universities, they are also intelligent enough to find another job if they don't like working at the bank. All of these banks also have well-structured internship programs, giving the students an opportunity to test the experience. Yes, the lifestyle can be very difficult for two years. But it's a trade-off; students work very hard in exchange for a high salary and great exit opportunities.
> Lastly, I believe the ratio of liberal-arts majors entering Wall Street is way lower than the article seems to suggest. From what I hear, overwhleming majority of the graduates entering Wall Street after graduation are science/math/engineering majors.
That is certainly not the case. STEM may be a majority of the graduates entering fields like high-frequency trading, but STEM is a very small minority of the students entering investment banks. And investment banks are much larger (in terms of # employees) than HFT. I'm not defending high-frequency trading -- I agree it's billions of dollars being spent on something that's socially unproductive. But it's inaccurate to make a blanket statement about "wall street" and apply it to any finance-related career.