You know when I in my job try something new and it doesn't work out my company might lose a contract or in a really bad case I lose my job. When we as a society decide unilaterally that we are going to change a few century's worth of teaching style for something new we risk raising a generation of children who can't do simple math. I am not worried about if this method is "better" according to research. I am worried…
2+2=What? Parents rail against Common Core math
51–60 of 116 posts
Re: 2+2=What? Parents rail against Common Core math
#52I have experienced this first hand with my daughter (2nd grade). She's doing 2 and 3 digit addition and subtraction by breaking the problem into chunks (I tried to cook up an example, but I don't remember how they do it exactly). I learned the "carry way", so the chunk thing seems cumbersome (and I didn't really know how to help her, since I keep reverting to my own proclivities), but it seems to work, and I see the…
It may be steep at first, but almost every problems involve breaking them into manageable chunks, let's hope it pays on the long run.
Re: 2+2=What? Parents rail against Common Core math
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
Bah... I can tell you why the first algorithm/example works because of the commutative and associative properties of math. Learning "why" a solution works, doesn't require learning some arcane algorithm. If kids don't learn how to do these problems quickly, they'll never be able to do higher order problems in a timely fashion.
> Bah... I can tell you why the [...] You are not a six year old child learning arithmatic. You have missed the point. > The problem with that method is that if I ask students to explain why it works, they’d have a really hard time explaining it to me. They might be able to do the computation, but they don’t get the math behind it. For some people, that’s fine. For math teachers, that’s a problem because it means a l…
Waving a hand and saying the "old way" is simply an algorithm and a poor method because it glosses over the details is like saying teaching someone how to use a calculator will make them forget how math works.
That common core method for subtracting 12 from 32 definitely doesn't teach you anything about how or why it works.
Re: 2+2=What? Parents rail against Common Core math
#54I am not a professional mathematician, but I get the overwhelming impression from professional mathematicians that "this conceptual thing" is really quite important in the big picture of math. To me this reflects a parent who hasn't used mathematical concepts in a real way and who doesn't understand the value in anything but arithmetic. It's the same mindset as people who throw their hands up at algebra because suddenly letters are mixed with numbers and they aren't doing multiplication tables anymore.
Edit: I don't mean this as a personal attack. It's just a problem of educating parents. People need to understand that conceptual math and abstract reasoning may seem like strange things to teach children, but that they will, in fact, provide the competitive edge for our kids. Perhaps the Common Core way of teaching this is terrible and makes children cry, but we shouldn't throw it out based on poor implementation.
Re: 2+2=What? Parents rail against Common Core math
#55I think this summarizes all the rails against common core pretty well: http://www.reddit.com/r/math/comments/21zdln/the_common_core...
Re: 2+2=What? Parents rail against Common Core math
#56I think this summarizes all the rails against common core pretty well: http://www.reddit.com/r/math/comments/21zdln/the_common_core...
Well I'm in the UK and it seems I was taught the "Common Core" way of doing things. All makes sense to me! Right down to using the quadratic formula to solve equations. The "Old" way just looks weird...
Re: 2+2=What? Parents rail against Common Core math
#57The parents rail against the new style of teaching because they were taught with the old style and never properly comprehended math other than by rote memorization. This is exactly the problem the new methods are trying to fix. I bet most people on HN are math-minded enough that they could pick up the new ways of doing things and actually understand how it is teaching total comprehension rather than just being able t…
As I am the parent with the CS degree, my wife is already referring our second-grader to me for help with math homework. Sure, after calc I-III, diff-EQ, linear algebra, etc. I can readily pick up on what they are doing and why. I also absolutely agree that they need to go beyond rote-memorization and help kids with a fundamental understanding of numbers, their relationships, etc.
But, here's the other side: I don't know that, say, a first or second-grader is really ready to grasp some of the concepts (at least as they are currently being taught). My daughter "handles" it pretty well and can get the job done, but it sometimes seems that they are simply moving the rote-memorization ball, so to speak. That is, now, instead of just remembering tables, she may be simply remembering these new methods of arriving at the answer. I'm not sure she really knows why though. And, it can actually be kind of difficult to test where their level of true understanding is. For instance, asking them to explain gets into their verbal skills as much as math. So, they may actually understand it, but are unable to really explain it. One clue is the kind of mistakes they make, but it's still kind of murky.
In any case, in the end, I'm not altogether sure that her comprehension has been expanded. And, it sometimes seems that the result is that she simply has to labor harder to arrive at the same answers.
On a side note, what's funny is that I learned the "old-school" way, yet I somehow managed to comprehend and am now trying to help my daughter understand the "new school" way. Something ironic about that.
Re: 2+2=What? Parents rail against Common Core math
#58I'd never heard of this before, but looking up some of the controversy, I found this article: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2014/03/07/abou... It actually makes some sense. I'm still skeptical, but it's sounding like it's just a significant departure from the rote memorization methods I grew up with.
Bah... I can tell you why the first algorithm/example works because of the commutative and associative properties of math. Learning "why" a solution works, doesn't require learning some arcane algorithm. If kids don't learn how to do these problems quickly, they'll never be able to do higher order problems in a timely fashion.
Re: 2+2=What? Parents rail against Common Core math
#59I'd never heard of this before, but looking up some of the controversy, I found this article: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2014/03/07/abou... It actually makes some sense. I'm still skeptical, but it's sounding like it's just a significant departure from the rote memorization methods I grew up with.
Taking the problem in the illustration, subtracting 12 from 42, the four-step process is ridiculous. The way an adult would look at it in a real-world situation is to recognize that the 12 neatly coincides with part of the 42. The relevant concept is units of 10 and of less than 10. One might use a somewhat different concept for a different question.
I'm not sure of the best way to teach the concepts - cover base 10 and places first, I guess, and then talk about how and why adults who are good at math perceive problems in certain ways. "Common core" looks like about what I would expect when the USG takes a basically good idea and mashes it thru a bureaucracy.
Re: 2+2=What? Parents rail against Common Core math
#60I think this summarizes all the rails against common core pretty well: http://www.reddit.com/r/math/comments/21zdln/the_common_core...
Sincerely, I have no idea how the "old-fashioned way" works. I mean, venn diagrams and trees to add fractions. A variable change (!) to solve a quadratic equation.
Those "new" methods were the methods I learned, and they were fast, efficient, and we add other algorithms to prove the validity of our answer.
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Math
[EDIT] I just read the thread. Apparently it was an april's fools joke. Now I don't feel like I'm living in Bizarro World