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Apple, Google to pay $324 million to settle conspiracy lawsuit

reuters.com

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Re: Apple, Google to pay $324 million to settle conspiracy lawsuit

#51

Post by mseebach »

kumbasha wrote: post #46
michaelochurch wrote: post #41

There's something Apple and Google and their ilk are much more afraid of than this lawsuit and, based on these shenanigans, it may be time. I found out last March why my manager at Google was adverse to me. I knew someone was pulling strings on him and I had thought that he was taking orders related to my criticism of the G+ direction (in fact, the G+ executives were, as far as I know, innocent) but it was actually b…

I suppose my first question is... Why doesn't this union already exist?

Occam's razor answer: Because the vast majority of Silicon Valley engineers are happy enough with their working conditions, with their ability to find new work if their current gig goes belly up and confident that if a major conflict occurs, they can find the help they need (eg. a lawyer) in the open market.

Re: Apple, Google to pay $324 million to settle conspiracy lawsuit

#52

Post by michaelochurch »

jrockway wrote: post #45
michaelochurch wrote: post #41

There's something Apple and Google and their ilk are much more afraid of than this lawsuit and, based on these shenanigans, it may be time. I found out last March why my manager at Google was adverse to me. I knew someone was pulling strings on him and I had thought that he was taking orders related to my criticism of the G+ direction (in fact, the G+ executives were, as far as I know, innocent) but it was actually b…

> That stuff is there to black-list potential unionizers. What stuff?

Blacklists and shared salary databases. If you move from one big tech company to another, your new employer typically knows exactly what you make, because that data is often shared. Some HR departments will also (although it's never put in writing, for obvious reasons) assist future employers in finding back-channel references.

This is a very old game, and the original reason for employers to share all that data was to blacklist "troublemakers" who might unionize the workforce. Now, it's more often used to verify compensation (lest people lie and big themselves up) and enforce no-poach pacts, but it's every bit as unethical.

Re: Apple, Google to pay $324 million to settle conspiracy lawsuit

#53

Post by shanterer »

michaelochurch wrote: post #41

There's something Apple and Google and their ilk are much more afraid of than this lawsuit and, based on these shenanigans, it may be time. I found out last March why my manager at Google was adverse to me. I knew someone was pulling strings on him and I had thought that he was taking orders related to my criticism of the G+ direction (in fact, the G+ executives were, as far as I know, innocent) but it was actually b…

your history of compulsive megaposting across google's internal message boards, your university's message boards, autoadmit, hackernews and several other sites indicates low mental stability and a paranoid mindset. it's not hard to believe that you really are a low productivity troublesome employee, and that this explain your lack of career success.

Re: Apple, Google to pay $324 million to settle conspiracy lawsuit

#54

Post by hahainternet »

michaelochurch wrote: post #50
hahainternet wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Michael, I have seen you comment here many times. I don't know you, and have never met you, but I feel it's hard to believe your stories. Almost every time you comment, there's immediately a comment from an active Googler telling everyone how you see things in a completely different way. For example, you casually mention here how you must be black listed because you have seen career problems since. Yet this is nothin…

Almost every time you comment, there's immediately a comment from an active Googler telling everyone how you see things in a completely different way. Google has almost 50,000 employees. Not all of them are intelligent, well-adjusted people. For example, you casually mention here how you must be black listed because you have seen career problems since. I don't think I'm "blacklisted". I've definitely caught inappropr…

> Google has almost 50,000 employees. Not all of them are intelligent, well-adjusted people.

Their responses to you that I have seen show no indication of underlying issues. Indeed they almost all seem to indict you as being overly obsessed with showing your infallibility with regards to you leaving Google. This conversation has started off in a similar manner.

> "Blacklisted" implies inability to get jobs, and it hasn't been nearly that bad for me because I'm ostensibly good at what I do. I've just had to deal with annoyances, like inappropriate questions on job interviews.

This is incredibly vague and you use it to imply that Google employees have emailed potential employers of yours and 'poisoned the well'. Lets make this clear. Have you collected any tortious intereference settlements against Google relating to potential employers you have interviewed for?

> The original purpose of shared blacklists was to shut out union risks

That is utterly irrelevant. This is not about union problems in any way, this is about a different illegal agreement.

> I'd like to fix technology. That's an agenda. What's wrong with having "an agenda"

This is pretty deliberately obtuse, you know exactly what I am stating, that you appear to have an anti-Google agenda in your comments, regardless of the actual topic of discussion.

Re: Apple, Google to pay $324 million to settle conspiracy lawsuit

#55

Post by hga »

georgemcbay wrote: post #36
beedogs wrote: post #5

Settlement seems low. Looks like every company involved ended up saving quite a bit of money, after all is said and done, with this little salary racket they had going.

Yeah, pretty terrible outcome. Lawyers get a huge chunk of money for relatively little effort, the actual plaintiffs get like a couple of thousand each, and the companies pay out an amount that is likely far less than the amount they saved by the illegal collusion and is also not sufficiently punitive to impact their future decisions to do similar things.

The lawyers, who are fronting the money to pursue this, have to balance risk and reward.

Anything can happen when it's put before a jury, including a deadlock from one recalcitrant juror followed by a retrial. Getting to that point would be insanely expensive, likely years of discovery battles, deposition taking and all that (and Jobs, the apparent ringleader, is of course beyond mortal questioning and judgement).

Then, as noted, an appellate judge (although not necessarily after all the above played out, it's going to be expensive for the companies and they'd pursue it ASAP) could declare this case isn't a proper class action. And there are ways the trial judge could screw up on matters of law and get slapped down by the appellate court ... and that's the infamous 9th Circuit....

Then we get to damages: sure, you can ask for 3 billion, and that it be trebled to 9, but you aren't necessarily going to get that much, and big awards are often substantially decreased upon appeal.

Re: Apple, Google to pay $324 million to settle conspiracy lawsuit

#56

Post by a3n »

beedogs wrote: post #5

Settlement seems low. Looks like every company involved ended up saving quite a bit of money, after all is said and done, with this little salary racket they had going.

"Settlement seems low."

> Apple, Google, Adobe and Intel in 2010 settled a U.S. Department of Justice probe by agreeing not to enter into such no-hire deals in the future. The four companies had since been fighting the civil antitrust class action.

This I think is actually the worst part, and all but guaranteed this settlement. "You guys were caught robbing banks. Don't do that again, 'K? Now get outta here."

Too bad a similar DOJ settlement wasn't available to Aaron Swartz. "Never make those documents publicly available again, K?"

Re: Apple, Google to pay $324 million to settle conspiracy lawsuit

#57

Post by jfjdjrnfmfm »

hahainternet wrote: post #54
michaelochurch wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost every time you comment, there's immediately a comment from an active Googler telling everyone how you see things in a completely different way. Google has almost 50,000 employees. Not all of them are intelligent, well-adjusted people. For example, you casually mention here how you must be black listed because you have seen career problems since. I don't think I'm "blacklisted". I've definitely caught inappropr…

> Google has almost 50,000 employees. Not all of them are intelligent, well-adjusted people. Their responses to you that I have seen show no indication of underlying issues. Indeed they almost all seem to indict you as being overly obsessed with showing your infallibility with regards to you leaving Google. This conversation has started off in a similar manner. > "Blacklisted" implies inability to get jobs, and it ha…

larry?

Re: Apple, Google to pay $324 million to settle conspiracy lawsuit

#59

Post by apsec112 »

danra wrote: post #25

I think the repercussions of this are wildly underestimated by Apple's and Google's management, and they are not doing nearly enough to prevent upcoming mass resignations of their engineers. I'm just extrapolating from my own emotions on the issue. I'd previously thought very positively about going to work for Apple. Not so anymore. To me, the fact that Tim Cook's voice isn't clearly heard, completely rejecting this…

"Upcoming mass resignations"? This story has been in the news for nearly four years now. Anyone who sees it as a compelling reason to not work for Google or Apple is long gone.

Re: Apple, Google to pay $324 million to settle conspiracy lawsuit

#60

Post by sheepmullet »

hahainternet wrote: post #48
michaelochurch wrote: post #41

There's something Apple and Google and their ilk are much more afraid of than this lawsuit and, based on these shenanigans, it may be time. I found out last March why my manager at Google was adverse to me. I knew someone was pulling strings on him and I had thought that he was taking orders related to my criticism of the G+ direction (in fact, the G+ executives were, as far as I know, innocent) but it was actually b…

Michael, I have seen you comment here many times. I don't know you, and have never met you, but I feel it's hard to believe your stories. Almost every time you comment, there's immediately a comment from an active Googler telling everyone how you see things in a completely different way. For example, you casually mention here how you must be black listed because you have seen career problems since. Yet this is nothin…

I find it easy to believe him. He posts using his real name. If he is lying then ....well Google has an army of lawyers. He is almost certainly telling what he believes is the truth.

In contrast all the active Google employees who follow him around are anon posters. Anon posters who never worked with Michael and are only repeating office gossip or pointing out differences in perspective.

Edit: Anon people sign up to hn simply to try and discredit MichaelOChurch by attacking his (admittedly a little rough around the edges) reputation. See shanterer's post below for evidence in this thread.

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