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Nonprofit in Queens taught people to write apps, incomes rose from $15k to $72k

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Re: Nonprofit in Queens taught people to write apps, incomes rose from $15k to $72k

#51

Post by 67726e »

byuu wrote: post #48
vishaldpatel wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could, but I wouldn't. You'll be surprised by how many brand name grads can't pass fizz buzz.

Half the people tell me that CS grads have to create new programming languages, write compilers, toy operating systems, computer emulators, learn thousands of complex algorithms, etc. And then the other half tell me that there are CS grads who can't write simple loops. You simply can't do the former if you aren't capable of the latter. As someone who did not go to college, I sure wish I knew which was really the case…

You'd be surprised how far rote memorization and Google along with a little cheating can get you.

I have a friend currently finishing up his third year for his CS degree. I've tried helping him for the entire time, but he really just doesn't give a damn enough to actually learn. He somehow passes all of the tests, but I know for a fact he could not pass FizzBuzz right now. I know. I've given it to him and watched him completely fail to even decompose the problem let alone start working on a solution.

Re: Nonprofit in Queens taught people to write apps, incomes rose from $15k to $72k

#52

Post by pessimizer »

byuu wrote: post #49

Regardless of the merits of this particular case ... I'm always happy to see people improve their lots in life through education. If someone can learn to program and earn significantly more money, they should go for it. However, I am concerned when people try and paint any given profession as being some kind of gold rush or as easy money. Even if programming were incredibly simple and anyone could pick it up ... if e…

>if everyone making $15K learned to program, they would drag the median salary of programmers down to $15K due to over-supply.

That's market competition and productivity gains. If your job is so easy that you fear that they could crank out people by the dozens that are as good at your job as you are, then you're going to have to choose a harder job if you want to make more money than them.

Re: Nonprofit in Queens taught people to write apps, incomes rose from $15k to $72k

#53

Post by faet »

grannyg00se wrote: post #15

"We saw lots of people in the City University of New York system who graduated as computer science majors but weren't going into the tech industry...It was a lot of access and network problems, and a lack of technical training." This is really confusing. How do you graduate as a computer science major and lack technical training? And if that's the case, how does such a faculty remain in business?

The school I went to originally had a 60% fail rate with their computer science program. The first class was huge, 80 students to 1 teacher. This was the first time most of the students did any programming at all. To fix, this they changed the course to the class room being "theory". Which mostly meant learning terms (What is an Int, String, etc). The second half of the class was a "lab with paired programming". Those who knew how to program going in would carry those who didn't. Many students couldn't even type at a reasonable speed. If you and your pair had no idea how to complete the assignment, the TA would basically do it for you. This brought the fail rate in line with other classes. This continued for the rest of their college career. You could get through doing zero solo programming.

The result was seniors who don't know about inheritance. The only thing they know is "public void someName()". But, because they don't have good OO practices, it ends up just being 1 program with everything in the main method.

These are the students who don't have technical training. Many came in because "Computers are the future.", "I have a friend making good money doing this.", and "everything is already written I just need to google."

Re: Nonprofit in Queens taught people to write apps, incomes rose from $15k to $72k

#54

Post by faet »

byuu wrote: post #48
vishaldpatel wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could, but I wouldn't. You'll be surprised by how many brand name grads can't pass fizz buzz.

Half the people tell me that CS grads have to create new programming languages, write compilers, toy operating systems, computer emulators, learn thousands of complex algorithms, etc. And then the other half tell me that there are CS grads who can't write simple loops. You simply can't do the former if you aren't capable of the latter. As someone who did not go to college, I sure wish I knew which was really the case…

Much of the work done at my local state college is done in groups. This means that you have 1-2 people who are writing the complex algorithms, compilers, etc. And 1-2 who can't. You do zero solo-programming. 10 years ago, there was more self programming, but then the fail rate started going up. So, everything is in 'groups'.

As long as those who can't program memorize the terms needed for the tests (no actual programming on tests) they will graduate.

Also, they give you choices for some classes. For instance, you can do a Senior Project or internship. The internship is 100h, for most students this can be done in 3 weeks during may-mester. Someone I know is currently doing their internship at a hospital fixing laptops. The Senior project usually takes 2 semesters. The Senior projects vary from a website to client/server app to robotics.

Those who do senior projects are also encouraged to do internships during the summer as it is a good way to network (although no school credit is given).

Re: Nonprofit in Queens taught people to write apps, incomes rose from $15k to $72k

#55

Post by GuzmanMan »

cjbarber wrote: post #22

Also worth mentioning: CodeNow (DC and San Francisco) http://codenow.com/ (currently appears down) CodeCamp (East Palo Alto) http://www.epacoding.com/ For people in the tech industry, helping out programs like these is an awesome way to give back. Fun, engaging, direct, and makes good use of the skills you already have (i.e. in a volunteering teaching position).

It looks like the CodeNow website is http://codenow.org/ They seem to be in New York too!

Re: Nonprofit in Queens taught people to write apps, incomes rose from $15k to $72k

#56

Post by dataminer »

byuu wrote: post #48
vishaldpatel wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could, but I wouldn't. You'll be surprised by how many brand name grads can't pass fizz buzz.

Half the people tell me that CS grads have to create new programming languages, write compilers, toy operating systems, computer emulators, learn thousands of complex algorithms, etc. And then the other half tell me that there are CS grads who can't write simple loops. You simply can't do the former if you aren't capable of the latter. As someone who did not go to college, I sure wish I knew which was really the case…

Some Computer Science programs are really strong and require students to do a good deal of intense programming work. However these programs are becoming fewer and fewer as universities water down their curriculum to get more students to pass through. So there is truth in both statements.

Re: Nonprofit in Queens taught people to write apps, incomes rose from $15k to $72k

#57

Post by BTC_BruceWillis »

jaydz wrote: post #43
m_ke wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't think that's the case. Plenty of CS majors at CUNYs have no idea how much programmers make. Most come in not knowing what to major in, end up taking an intro programming class to meet some basic requirement and end up liking it enough to continue learning it. They go through the program doing well enough to pass and hope that what they learn in class will help them get a job once they're done. None of…

Current CUNY CS major here. Yes, the majority of CUNY CS majors are clueless individuals who have zero business being here. However, there are many diamonds in the CUNY rough (some can be found here: http://cunytap.wordpress.com/ ) who love CS and programming. There's some good talent here for startups in the alley to scoop up if they cared to look.

I've heard good things about TAP.

Re: Nonprofit in Queens taught people to write apps, incomes rose from $15k to $72k

#58

Post by dfc »

smm2000 wrote: post #45
dfc wrote: post #40

> There's a booming tech scene in New York City with over 70,000 open > jobs, but it's always been somewhat insulated from the city itself What is this sentence trying to convey? The part that I do not understand is the "insulated from the city" bit.

People in a booming tech scene are not sleeping on the streets and are insulated (by walls) from the city itself.

I appreciate your response and it is too bad that you were downvoted for trying to help. Whoever downvoted you should have provided their explanation if it was so obvious to them that you were wrong. I think the problem is that we are dealing with bad writing. My problem with your explanation is that it means everybody except the homeless population of the city is "insulated from the city." As far as insightful openings go, this is not my choice for the introduction. This is especially silly if you try and imagine any "booming industry" that would not be "insulated from the city." Once again thanks for your effort and I apologize that someone downvoted you for trying to be a helpful member of the community.

Re: Nonprofit in Queens taught people to write apps, incomes rose from $15k to $72k

#59

Post by gcb0 »

ForHackernews wrote: post #35
gcb0 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, this is like everyone doing websites in the 90's during the dotcom bubble. All small business trying to find honest people ended up hiring someone's 12yr old cousin (trhu a spiffy LLC front) and ended up with worst-than-useless websites full of security holes and zero accessibility. Hope those projects are all games and fart apps and not mission critical stuff. and since i have a very hard time thinking of miss…

As somebody's formerly 12 year old cousin: screw you, my broken PHP was STATE OF THE ART for web dev.

lol. im the same. but we learned, and here we are. most people just cashed checks and screwed, even if unintentionally, lots of folks
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