Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not to mention the daily stories of Wall St hustlers stealing billions, trillions of taxpayer dollars being given away as welfare to corporations (which promptly pay out billions in bonuses) and trillions pissed away on murdering tens of thousands of people in other countries, but people are all up in arms when some single mother gets a $100 in food stamps, or a Mexican risks death in the desert to come mow your lawn…
The problem here is of the government. Government decided to intervene and give those billions to the corporations. If government and bureaucrats didn't have the power to give away taxpayer's money, we won't have this problem. And that's why we libertarians talk about 'limited government.' Remember, 'Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.'
Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"
51–60 of 90 posts
Re: Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
Without the infrastructure around you, you would not have the opportunity to succeed. Much of this infrastructure is public - paid for and run by the government. Taxes are not the government stealing your income from you. It's the government pooling resources so the society we live in can continue to function. There's more to success than making wise choices. It's also have the ability to even have that choice becaus…
Wow, HN folks sure have a 'socialist' slant. Anyway, do you think you are getting your money's worth when you give away 30% of your income in taxes? Do you know how much of the tax money is spent of infrastructure? Look at this chart of US budget spending. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._Federal_Spending_-_FY... 65% of taxpayer's money went to defense/social security/medicare-medicaid. Think about it for a mom…
This why I don't see libertarianism (or even conservatism) working in general. There are vast swathes of americans who given more money would spend it irresponsibly - and what do you do then when someone spends their limited income on new truck nuts instead of health insurance?
Re: Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wow, HN folks sure have a 'socialist' slant. Anyway, do you think you are getting your money's worth when you give away 30% of your income in taxes? Do you know how much of the tax money is spent of infrastructure? Look at this chart of US budget spending. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._Federal_Spending_-_FY... 65% of taxpayer's money went to defense/social security/medicare-medicaid. Think about it for a mom…
I actually think people here tend to run more libertarian than socialist. I wish we spent less on the defense, but the amount spent on Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid sits fine with me. I consider that social infrastructure. When large portions of society go without, all of society suffers. We see ourselves as fitting into society in different ways. You feel that the government is taking your money in the form…
Trust me, I have no problem with taxes, I understand their need and pay them on time every year. My problem is the already high taxes and the fact that they are increasing. This means that government gets bigger and bigger and wastes all our (yours and mine) hard earned money. Unless you are suggesting that government doesn't waste money, I don't want them to increase taxes.
Re: Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not to mention the daily stories of Wall St hustlers stealing billions, trillions of taxpayer dollars being given away as welfare to corporations (which promptly pay out billions in bonuses) and trillions pissed away on murdering tens of thousands of people in other countries, but people are all up in arms when some single mother gets a $100 in food stamps, or a Mexican risks death in the desert to come mow your lawn…
The problem here is of the government. Government decided to intervene and give those billions to the corporations. If government and bureaucrats didn't have the power to give away taxpayer's money, we won't have this problem. And that's why we libertarians talk about 'limited government.' Remember, 'Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.'
The EPA, before the anti-EPA right wing nuts of the bush administration took it over, was doing good work, like trying to keep mercury out of our water. Of course, under the "pro business" bush administration, they've undermined such protections and declared that mercury and other toxins in our water aren't so bad after all and raised their acceptable limits in water (which is just a small sample of the outrageous "pro business" bullshit the bush administration was guilty of).
I happen to enjoy the National Parks in the US, as I think many Americans do; and I, for one, am glad that they're in public hands instead of the hands of the corporations. Yet Bush appointed people to head the National Park service who had explicitly expressed their opposition to even the existence of National Parks. And they've proceeded to sell off public lands and undermine the protections of the National Parks by granting more permissive logging rights to corporations and by watering down environmental regulations.
Now on to the FDA, which does a pretty good job of protecting the quality of the food and drugs it regulates (though in my opinion they are not nearly strict enough, because in many cases they in bed with the corporations and are underfunded, so consequently their regulation and enforcement is not nearly strong enough).
All the "pro-business", anti-environment, and anti-public-property abuses of the Bush administration would be increased a hundred fold if the libertarian vision ever came to pass. The libertarians would get rid of the EPA, the FDA, and sell of the National Parks. The corps would be free to pollute our air and water, kill off all endangered species, and the corps would be free to "self-regulate" the food and drugs they produce (meaning a free-for-all for a quick buck at the expense of public health).
And the above doesn't even begin to address the havoc libertarians would wreck on our education system (turning it in to even more of education for the wealthy than it already is), and destroy the few vestiges of a social safety net that America has managed to save despite many decades of assault from the "small government" crowd.
Basically, what libertarianism really amounts to is the attitude that there should be even more concentration of power in the hands of the wealthy, and the poor can go fuck themselves.
In my youth I was drawn to libertarianism (and I still agree with a few of their positions, such as their opposition to the War on Drugs), but as I've learned more about politics and history I see that the vast majority of those who will benefit from libertarianism are the wealthy, which is one reason (another is his racism) why Ron Paul could sneak in as a Republican candidate, where he wouldn't have stood a chance as a Democrat.
Re: Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wow that's cold. It's a bit ugly that you can loop everyone that can't afford healthcare, mental health issues or drug addiction into a single bucket and dispose of them. Those who can afford to spend 6 years in college playing video games, rarely are the ones who are doing it on the gov't dime. Its the kids that grow up in crappy underprivileged neighborhoods with poor school systems and no guidance are the ones tha…
Here's the problem with your argument. How are you going to make sure that government helps those poor people (the one you identified in your post) and not others? How are you going to make sure there is no waste/minimal waste? How are you going to make sure that lobbyists/corporations won't lobby the government to get this additional taxpayer's money and use it for their own instead of helping the poor? Where is the…
I have a general issue with the waste argument. And perhaps this is a bit naive, but as long as the gov't spends money that stays domestic, then the economy is being helped. Even with waste.
I'm sorry I have less faith that "most" Americans would spend money more responsibly than my gov't.
Re: Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wow, HN folks sure have a 'socialist' slant. Anyway, do you think you are getting your money's worth when you give away 30% of your income in taxes? Do you know how much of the tax money is spent of infrastructure? Look at this chart of US budget spending. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._Federal_Spending_-_FY... 65% of taxpayer's money went to defense/social security/medicare-medicaid. Think about it for a mom…
I don't want people spending their money as they see fit, see I'm not a politician so I can say this. This why I don't see libertarianism (or even conservatism) working in general. There are vast swathes of americans who given more money would spend it irresponsibly - and what do you do then when someone spends their limited income on new truck nuts instead of health insurance?
Are you okie? I hear a 'no'. Then why do you think you want government to control how others spend their money? Do you really think someone else knows better than you what to do you with your own hard earned money? And why do you think libertarianism doesn't work? America is a living proof that libertarianism/capitalism works.
Another example: I am an Indian and when I was a kid, I remember how poor our country was. Since India decided to open up the trade in 1991 and adopted some of the libertarian policies, it has flourished. I don't know how old are you but did you hear about India as a vibrant economy 25 years back? So please don't suggest that libertarianism doesn't' work because I have seen it with my own eyes how well it works.
Re: Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
if they pay taxes and buy goods and services, why should it matter if the wealth is self-made or inherited?
Most self-made rich people get there by (I'll bet you've heard this before...) making something people want. It's a rare buyer who buys something for $20 and values it at exactly $20 -- most buyers think it's worth a little more, or a lot more. That difference means that most purchases are not only beneficial to the maker/inventor (who is making money on the transaction), but also to the buyer (who believes their lif…
Re: Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
Here's the problem with your argument. How are you going to make sure that government helps those poor people (the one you identified in your post) and not others? How are you going to make sure there is no waste/minimal waste? How are you going to make sure that lobbyists/corporations won't lobby the government to get this additional taxpayer's money and use it for their own instead of helping the poor? Where is the…
And your solution is to what exactly? Pay less in taxes and hope the parents of underprivileged kids in poor neighborhoods spend the money responsibly on healthcare and schooling? That seems naive at best. I have a general issue with the waste argument. And perhaps this is a bit naive, but as long as the gov't spends money that stays domestic, then the economy is being helped. Even with waste. I'm sorry I have less f…
Re: Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wow that's cold. It's a bit ugly that you can loop everyone that can't afford healthcare, mental health issues or drug addiction into a single bucket and dispose of them. Those who can afford to spend 6 years in college playing video games, rarely are the ones who are doing it on the gov't dime. Its the kids that grow up in crappy underprivileged neighborhoods with poor school systems and no guidance are the ones tha…
And, you sir, live in a false reality. I bet you'd love to tell us how socialism would work if we "just gave it a chance." Let me guess... it "hasn't been implemented properly" yet right?
I'm well aware of how much I pay in taxes, its significant and getting worse since I started my own business this year.
But I believe that my taxes fill a need society and in fact even have a pragmatic slant (one which Cuban raised) in the Keynsian model more taxes = more spending by gov't and the only real way to stimulate economy.
Win/Win I help people and make more money with a better economy.
Re: Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"
#60I'm almost certain there there may be flaws in this though but: Isn't there a limited monetary supply at any given time? So the richer I get, the less rich other people become. Even after I pay rents and salaries and everything else, if I'm richer than I was before, then there is less wealth available for everyone else.