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Lavabit appeal confirms original ruling [pdf]

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Re: Lavabit appeal confirms original ruling [pdf]

#51
post #50
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is difficult to assert since as soon as the DOJ finally did install the tap and got encrypted traffic (as he had told them they would from the beginning) they immediately insisted on the keys. I can't imagine they would not have demanded the keys if only he had been more cooperative from the beginning. And it is not unreasonable to believe he was fearful of that outcome from the beginning. In fact as part of the…

Look back a page, and check out my original comment. Levison offered a solution where he'd provide the decrypted information the DOJ wanted, but it was rejected, because: * By the time he suggested it, he had demonstrated hostility to DOJ's cause * He refused to provide timely updates, instead dictating that information would be provided only at the conclusion of the monitoring window

The original order allowed law enforcement to [“capture all non-content dialing, routing, addressing, and signaling information . . . sent from or sent to” the target’s account.] (note "non-content")

Levison told the FBI when first contacted that he could not do this because of the encryption mode the target used. He told the FBI [“Lavabit did not want to ‘defeat [its] own system.’”] presumably by disclosing it's private keys for the ssl traffic. Only later did he come up with a way that he could comply with this order without disclosing Lavabit's private keys, but by the next day that was already too late because:

That very same day as the first order the FBI got a new broader order that [instructed Lavabit to “provide the [FBI] with unencrypted data pursuant to the [Pen/Trap] Order” and reiterated that Lavabit was to provide “any information, facilities, or technical assistance . . . under the control of Lavabit . . . [that was] needed to provide the FBI with the unencrypted data.”]

So this is where I make my point above, that this seems over reaching, and Levison's reactions from that point forward are understandable if argumentative. It is only after this point that one could argue he "demonstrated hostility".

--

However, it should be noted here that this appeals court decision does not ratify the magistrate judge's approval of a wire tap or the original court's decision against Levison and Lavabit. This decision even notes that Levison fails to make the arguments I made above so cannot consider them.

Re: Lavabit appeal confirms original ruling [pdf]

#52
post #50
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is difficult to assert since as soon as the DOJ finally did install the tap and got encrypted traffic (as he had told them they would from the beginning) they immediately insisted on the keys. I can't imagine they would not have demanded the keys if only he had been more cooperative from the beginning. And it is not unreasonable to believe he was fearful of that outcome from the beginning. In fact as part of the…

Look back a page, and check out my original comment. Levison offered a solution where he'd provide the decrypted information the DOJ wanted, but it was rejected, because: * By the time he suggested it, he had demonstrated hostility to DOJ's cause * He refused to provide timely updates, instead dictating that information would be provided only at the conclusion of the monitoring window

Let's stipulate for the purposes of this thread that he broke the law, was a jerk, and did a morally wrong thing.

None of that is justification to violate the privacy of innocent third parties.

Re: Lavabit appeal confirms original ruling [pdf]

#53
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look back a page, and check out my original comment. Levison offered a solution where he'd provide the decrypted information the DOJ wanted, but it was rejected, because: * By the time he suggested it, he had demonstrated hostility to DOJ's cause * He refused to provide timely updates, instead dictating that information would be provided only at the conclusion of the monitoring window

Let's stipulate for the purposes of this thread that he broke the law, was a jerk, and did a morally wrong thing. None of that is justification to violate the privacy of innocent third parties.

You have no evidence that any such violation occurred, and neither do I.

Re: Lavabit appeal confirms original ruling [pdf]

#54
post #2

The more I read about the case, the less happy I am about having donated to Levison. Pages 8-12 of this decision convey a narrative about Levison's handling of the FBI requests. In particular, they detail an escalation that Levison himself provoked: * The DOJ reached out demanding metadata regarding (presumably, and let's just stipulate) Snowden's use of Lavabit. * Levison rejected the request, on the auspices that S…

I guess you're just taking it as a given that resisting the DOJ's persecution of Snowden was an error. I'm not really surprised, given your history of cheerleading for the NSA, but anyone who doesn't agree with that is going to find the rest of your reasoning a bit wanting.

I wouldn't describe anything tptacek has done as "cheerleading for the NSA". He is less apt to get riled up than a lot of people, but "cheerleading" implies more active support than just not being convinced that somebody is the Devil.

Re: Lavabit appeal confirms original ruling [pdf]

#55
post #2

The more I read about the case, the less happy I am about having donated to Levison. Pages 8-12 of this decision convey a narrative about Levison's handling of the FBI requests. In particular, they detail an escalation that Levison himself provoked: * The DOJ reached out demanding metadata regarding (presumably, and let's just stipulate) Snowden's use of Lavabit. * Levison rejected the request, on the auspices that S…

Maybe Levison didn't want the FBI to track down and capture Snowden and throw him in jail for the rest of his life.

Re: Lavabit appeal confirms original ruling [pdf]

#56

I don't see why the court couldn't 'refashion' Levison's statement ... "[I object] to turning over the SSL keys because that would compromise all of the secure communications in and out of my network, including my own administrative traffic." ... into "anything remotely close to a statutory-text-based challenge to the district court’s fundamental authority under the Pen/Trap Statute" As a lay person, it sounds like t…

It's clear to me, even as a lay person, that Levinson's statement does not refer to any statutory text. Or any legal procedure, etc. On what grounds was he objecting? "A party does not go far enough by raising a non-specific objection or claim"

Obviously Levison is attempting to argue that the pen/trap statute is limited to specific information ("metatdata") and it does not allow interception of "all of the secure communications [and] administrative traffic".

That he didn't cite the chapter and verse which this contradicts seems like an situation where he needed a real defense lawyer.

Re: Lavabit appeal confirms original ruling [pdf]

#57
post #2

The more I read about the case, the less happy I am about having donated to Levison. Pages 8-12 of this decision convey a narrative about Levison's handling of the FBI requests. In particular, they detail an escalation that Levison himself provoked: * The DOJ reached out demanding metadata regarding (presumably, and let's just stipulate) Snowden's use of Lavabit. * Levison rejected the request, on the auspices that S…

I guess you're just taking it as a given that resisting the DOJ's persecution of Snowden was an error. I'm not really surprised, given your history of cheerleading for the NSA, but anyone who doesn't agree with that is going to find the rest of your reasoning a bit wanting.

None of the logic in the comment you're replying to has anything at all to do with NSA, so your objection to it says more about your biases than mine.
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