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Work Hard You'll Get There Eventually (hint: no you won't)

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Re: Work Hard You'll Get There Eventually (hint: no you won't)

#51
Cooperate-Cooperate, Betray-Cooperate, or Betray-Betray.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooperative_game

In the golden era we imagine the corporate worker relations was a cooperate cooperate game, producing hard work, good will, and strong meaningful community for everyone.

Then corporations realized they needed workers to cooperate while reserving the right to betray them (layoffs, terminations etc) because as the market grew more cut throat due to everyone's success, a company needed to stay lean and competitive.

Workers are now growing wise to this and we are entering a betray-betray era. Corperations are working to force cooperation while reserving the right to betray (see google/apple/facebook engineering cartel) but workers in high demand fields are becoming savvy as they can use their skills to go anywhere

The problem is the net result of the betray-betray game is assumed to be net lower than the other strategy to play the game, causing the community at large to gain less over multiple games.

To me this is the net result of cynicism: damaging the community in the name of optimization. Capitalism as practiced is a pain-optimization machine and until we choose to risk playing the game as a cooperative endeavor, it will never improve.

Re: Work Hard You'll Get There Eventually (hint: no you won't)

#52
post #50

The new system is not 'better' than the old system, and is probably significantly worse. While it's true that Welch's advice is no longer valid, it's because the legal, financial, and monetary environment has changed so much since the heydays of GE. My grandfather retired a millionaire after working as a basic GE accountant for his entire postwar life. So as far as he was concerned, GE treated him well, and it treate…

You grandfather was not only one working for Jack Welch. He might have benefited, plenty of others did not. Jack Welch laid off a lot of loyal hardwoking capable people in his days. GE cut all businesses in which the company could not dominate the market in first or second positions and I doubt those all were slackers. Were your grandpa be employed there, his treatment would be much different. He used "fire 10% manag…

Quite possibly. My grandfather's working life stopped in the mid-1980s. I had hoped to communicate that the search for human villains and heroes tends to be misleading. Our actions are often reactive to larger, more complex trends in politics and finance.

It is easier to say "Jack Welch, big badman, such fat meanie" than it is to track all the myriad complex changes in tax policy, central banking, technology, society, and in other fields.

"I find suspect that someone who is not particularly ambitious man working 9-5 survived long in that stab back otherwise you will be one of fired 10% environment."

You're entitled... to your feelings. I would describe someone who worked for over 30 years without attempting to reach an executive position as 'not particularly ambitious.' I could also be lying. Or paid off by GE. I could even be Jack Welch.

Don't trust what you read on the internet.

Re: Work Hard You'll Get There Eventually (hint: no you won't)

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had a lot of terrible luck. Some of it was no one's fault, most of it was not my fault. I'll probably be a lot more successful now that I have my shit together. But when things go bad for you, you learn what people really are in a way that the ones with charmed lives never really do. I suppose I'm lucky insofar as I had my bad luck in my 20s, when it was easier to recover than in one's 50s. Much knowledge can on…

To be fair, your idea of "terrible" luck basically means "having to switch jobs several times and making less than $250,000 as a 30 year old". I mean, I get it: There are plenty of people who are less deserving than you that have been wildly, disproportionately successful. I can understand why you're envious. But don't kid yourself, most people would kill to have the supposedly miserable failure of a career that you'…

your idea of "terrible" luck basically means "having to switch jobs several times and making less than $250,000 as a 30 year old".

Nah, that's not what it's about at all. It's definitely not about the salary. If you're a novelist and you make even a quarter of that number at mid-career, you're a huge success.

It's about autonomy, importance, reputation, etc. Personal financial stress (which I have suffered, although most of that was because I picked a bad startup, thus my fault) is toxic sludge, but the difference between comfortable and rich means zilch. What does matter is control over one's destiny, rather than being blown about by others' political games, and having the resources to implement one's own ideas rather than being a tool in someone else's box.

Software used to have an R&D flavor, but we've let ourselves become a colonized, defeated tribe. As a consequence, we have to deal with closed allocation, project management bullshit ("story points") and constant political intrusions on the ability to do our work properly.

I've realized (perhaps too late) that it's not my fault, because no one really has that authority based on technical ability alone. One really does have to suck it up and play politics. As I get older, I realize that my negative experiences are ridiculously common. Most people hide away in shame when bad things happen to them in their careers. I won't. To protect the good, I come out, throw down and fight.

I can understand why you're envious.

Envy != resentment. I'm not a very envious person, but I take pride in resenting those with undeserved success. They get into power, make bad decisions, and it's almost impossible to flush them out. They're a cancer. I'm the chemo.

Envy is wishing one had another's unfair or undeserved advantage. Resentment is pushing toward fairness. You're not trying to grab that coveted token or advantage for yourself (that would be envy) but you're trying to expose its stupidity and render it meaningless. Envy is an emotion; resentment is an attitude and somewhat of a social strategy.

My emotions toward the Evan Spiegels and Lucas Duplans of the world (I don't feel much either way for them, to be honest) are irrelevant. What is relevant is that they make good anecdotes, and when they embarrass themselves they can be cast in such a way that they take down other, much more important, targets. Does Lucas Duplan deserve to be ridiculed more (or less) than any other young douchebag? Not really. Should we mock him mercilessly if it casts aspersion on the chickenhawks who backed him? Yes, absolutely.

Re: Work Hard You'll Get There Eventually (hint: no you won't)

#55
post #2

There's no real alternative offered here. I understand there's a whole 'open' and 'small' world out there and I can learn lessons from my peers, but if I'm not supposed to be 'working hard for my boss' in the modern corporate world, what am I supposed to be doing to 'get there eventually'?

Work hard for your boss, but learn to, and intentionally practice communicating your work to a wider audience, so you are not tied to the fate of your boss or company. Speak at meetups, conferences, take an active role in mentoring, and develop meaningful relationships with peers in other companies so that when you want to move, its easy to do so.

Re: Work Hard You'll Get There Eventually (hint: no you won't)

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somehow you've decided that, despite labeling yourself unsuccessful, people should pay attention to what you say. The only support I see you making for this is citing your IQ, which is meaningless. You obviously believe you're telling people things that work, and the attempt to help is something I'm sure people appreciate. But based on what you're saying here, either you don't follow that advice, you don't understand…

I've had a lot of terrible luck. Some of it was no one's fault, most of it was not my fault. I'll probably be a lot more successful now that I have my shit together. But when things go bad for you, you learn what people really are in a way that the ones with charmed lives never really do. I suppose I'm lucky insofar as I had my bad luck in my 20s, when it was easier to recover than in one's 50s. Much knowledge can on…

Terrible luck? At 30 with an IQ of 150, my guess you're making at or near 100k a year.

Man, what rotten luck.

Re: Work Hard You'll Get There Eventually (hint: no you won't)

#57
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That, in combination with the ~50% tax rate on income and capital gains. Turns out, when you redistribute wealth, consumption increases so rapidly that the economy takes off. That no longer is much of an option, as wealthy individuals have not only managed to reduce capital gains to ridiculously low levels, but also diversified their holdings throughout the globe. This makes taxation a poor tactic, as capital will ju…

Naaah. The post-war revival in the economy was largely a result of having dismantled the FDR New Deal and its attendant control economy. No, not the Social Security part or anything like that - the part where politicians and regulators thought competition was bad for consumers, and spent the decade propping up their preferred cronies with price controls and selective bailouts and other such nonsense. With the politic…

Most of the price control/cartel parts of the New Deal were partly or entirely dismantled before the war. Of course, a new set of price controls were set up during wartime, but those were not New Deal programs.

What survived from the New Deal were the Keynesian stimulus programs, which were generally very successful, lasted through the war and up through the '70s, and some to this day.

Re: Work Hard You'll Get There Eventually (hint: no you won't)

#58

Cooperate-Cooperate, Betray-Cooperate, or Betray-Betray. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooperative_game In the golden era we imagine the corporate worker relations was a cooperate cooperate game, producing hard work, good will, and strong meaningful community for everyone. Then corporations realized they needed workers to cooperate while reserving the right to betray them (layoffs, terminations etc) because as the mar…

Not everything is the prisoner's dilemma. There's no reason -- at least not in your post -- that self-motivated individualism can't be efficient; such ideas were advocated by e.g. Hayek and Friedman (to say nothing of real macroeconomics). If my time is better spent somewhere else because they offer me more money, maybe that's because the work I do there will produce more value for the world overall.

In other words your argument is circular: you assume that individualism is bad, and you conclude that capitalism (which starts and ends with individualism) is bad.

Furthermore have workers and corporations always competed cf. unionization in the 1920s and so forth; in general this has been considered an overall benefit (working fewer hours --> quality of life and education).

Re: Work Hard You'll Get There Eventually (hint: no you won't)

#59

The new system is not 'better' than the old system, and is probably significantly worse. While it's true that Welch's advice is no longer valid, it's because the legal, financial, and monetary environment has changed so much since the heydays of GE. My grandfather retired a millionaire after working as a basic GE accountant for his entire postwar life. So as far as he was concerned, GE treated him well, and it treate…

> because the US no longer rewards loyalty in either the public or private spheres The comfort of 1950s US was an accident of the WW2 windfall resulting from our happy position as the creditor for most of Europe. Pointing to that accident as a model for future progress is childish.

I think it was more we where one of the few advanced economies not bombed into the ground.

Re: Work Hard You'll Get There Eventually (hint: no you won't)

#60
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You grandfather was not only one working for Jack Welch. He might have benefited, plenty of others did not. Jack Welch laid off a lot of loyal hardwoking capable people in his days. GE cut all businesses in which the company could not dominate the market in first or second positions and I doubt those all were slackers. Were your grandpa be employed there, his treatment would be much different. He used "fire 10% manag…

Quite possibly. My grandfather's working life stopped in the mid-1980s. I had hoped to communicate that the search for human villains and heroes tends to be misleading. Our actions are often reactive to larger, more complex trends in politics and finance. It is easier to say "Jack Welch, big badman, such fat meanie" than it is to track all the myriad complex changes in tax policy, central banking, technology, society…

I did not meant that you are lying, sorry to come across that way. I referred to system of hires/fires and culture that forms after fire x% every year is going on.

Your grandfather working life stopped in the mid-1980s, so it was all in the making. He had maximum few years of that. GE after Jack Welch was not exactly known for 9-5 easy going non-ambitious culture.

It is quite possible that GE had enough "fat" for someone working 9-5 without much ambitions to make to the top 20% who were getting large bonuses. Then, once they fired lazy, only ambitions and non-ambitions people remained. That is the point everybody complains about, cause non-ambitious follow and then it is fight about politics between remaining ambitions.

However, your grandfather retired a millionaire, so he must have been high enough in hierarchy or be outlier in some other way. Regular GE workers in that era did not retired millionaires.

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