Announcing .NET Native Preview • Hacker News Board

Re: Announcing .NET Native Preview

#51

Post by CmonDev » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 8:22 AM UTC

BuckRogers wrote: post #46

So is this the mysterious 'M#' technology revealed?

That's a language, this is a compiler tech.

Re: Announcing .NET Native Preview

#52

Post by andyjohnson0 » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 8:24 AM UTC

tdicola wrote: post #4

spo81rty wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CLR apps require just in time compiling which can take a little time to first run. So this should speed up opening the apps.

Sure, but ngen solved that problem years ago: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/6t9t5wcf(v=vs.110).a...

See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7520687

Re: Announcing .NET Native Preview

#53

Post by thomasz » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 8:39 AM UTC

apardoe-MSFT wrote: post #42

rajeevk wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

@apardoe, one question: where will the compilation to machine instruction happen? From some comments in this thread, it seems that it will happen at app store server and not at developer's box. If that is the case then why will I need anything to do any settings in VS for building projects?

@rajeevk, we could compile from MSIL and not tell the developer. But you probably appreciate the chance to test out the app on your own the way your user will run it. After all, you'll want to profile it or maybe find that last on-device, optimized-only bug...

What about stuff like Il.Emit and Expression.Compile

Re: Announcing .NET Native Preview

#54

Post by ksec » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 8:57 AM UTC

There was GCJ that used to do this for Java. Sadly it has been discontinued.

It is interesting how every old is new again, we went from AOT to JIT and Back to AOT again.

Re: Announcing .NET Native Preview

#55

Post by bananas » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 9:14 AM UTC

This is great. I hope they make this available for web apps because we've got 45 second warmup time and CPU spamming due to the massive size of the work the JIT has to do when we deploy. Total pain.

I imagine this would help them keep costs down on Azure as well.

Re: Announcing .NET Native Preview

#56

Post by detay » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 9:44 AM UTC

Microsoft: "We could speed up your server-side code, but instead we did speed up the slow windows mobile apps that nobody cares about."

Re: Announcing .NET Native Preview

#57

Post by simplyinfinity » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 9:59 AM UTC

detay wrote: post #56

Microsoft: "We could speed up your server-side code, but instead we did speed up the slow windows mobile apps that nobody cares about."

here, educate yourself

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/6t9t5wcf(v=vs.110).a...

Re: Announcing .NET Native Preview

#58

Post by simplyinfinity » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 10:00 AM UTC

keithwarren wrote: post #31

It seems the comments area here is full of lots of questions and few answers. Let me try to clear some things up. Lets start with how it currently works... When you create an application or website in C#,F#,VB.NET or any other .NET language you are not really 'compiling' it per se to native code, you are compiling it to an intermediate language called IL - very much like Java byte code. When your application or websi…

So this is pretty much like NGEN[0] for windows store apps ? interesting.

[0] http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/6t9t5wcf(v=vs.110).a...

Re: Announcing .NET Native Preview

#59

Post by tracker1 » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 10:07 AM UTC

Someone wrote: post #48

plorkyeran wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It gives faster startup time (due to AOT compilation rather than JIT), and doesn't require that the .NET framework be installed. Possibly better runtime performance, but I wouldn't expect huge gains there. P/Invoke should have lower overhead, which may be highly relevant for some things. I suspect that there's things that require this which they haven't announced yet, since on its own it seems like something kinda ni…

"It [...] doesn't require that the .NET framework be installed." Are you sure? You still need the standard libraries, a garbage collector, its security checks when loading other code, and may want to use its compiler from your code. Together, that's a lot, maybe all, of what's in the framework.

The standard library base is huge... they already split things into a desktop and full profile for the .Net installer. This will only need to include those portions of the library your app actually uses, which is generally a pretty small part (including GC). Not to mention future versions of the .Net runtime not needing to be installed on the target machine.

Re: Announcing .NET Native Preview

#60

Post by ksk » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 10:13 AM UTC

api wrote: post #17

Only for Windows store? So who thinks walled gardens and feudalization are coming to all desktop OSes in the next 5 years? In the future, a store / certificate authority will be able to arbitrarily revoke your right to run anything on your computer that isn't approved.

>In the future, a store / certificate authority will be able to arbitrarily revoke your right to run anything on your computer that isn't approved

We're already there with Web Apps and other SaaS "innovative" technologies.