I find it interesting that this finding suggests that free radical/reactive-oxygen-species theories of aging were close, but just off the mark. It appears that the cell can cope quite well with chemical damage of this type, but has a harder time regulating mtDNA expression, which leads to the same result: reduced mitochondria function with age.
A New—and Reversible—Cause of Aging
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Re: A New—and Reversible—Cause of Aging
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are seven distinct mechanisms for cellular and intracellular damage resulting from aging. Improving the regulation of mitochondria could completely fix one and slow down the rate of accumulation of a few other types of damage, but that's it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategies_for_Engineered_Negli...
Please note that Aubrey de Grey's theories are highly controversial and while some of these mechanisms are indeed big topics in the field, many biogerontologists have been publicly skeptical of his claims. In fact, some of these are even mentioned in your link. The way you worded it, it seems you're implying SENS is a widely accepted theory, while in fact it's anything but (although I'd say it certainly is interestin…
http://sens.org/about/leadership/research-advisory-board
The SENS Research Foundation has a yearly budget about a tenth of that of one of the largest aging research labs, the Buck Institute. The Foundation funds work in a range of laboratories around in the US and Europe, and has collaborations with Oxford, Wake Forest, and so forth.
Insofar as controversy exists, you might look on it as a facet of the present dispute over modern theories of aging: camps for aging as accumulated damage versus aging as evolved programming. The accumulated damage side is much bigger but split into several factions, one of which is centered around SENS.
Re: A New—and Reversible—Cause of Aging
#53Many of the problems surrounding funding of meaningful efforts to treat aging, eliminate age-related disease, and extend healthy life come about because the people with the biggest megaphones are also doing the least useful work. This is true outside the scientific community, in the "anti-aging" marketplace that tries to convince people they should take supplements rather than support research. This is true inside th…
You're also talking like someone who has no experience with life sciences research at all and is an armchair expert. As someone who has dedicated a significant portion of my life and time to research in medical sciences it's not as easy as "fix them all." How do you 'fix' changes in protein expression without causing unintended side effects? It's hard enough to get something to work in cell culture let alone in a complex organism where compensatory mechanisms kick in whenever you do anything. We can't even get mild pain relief to work without side effects and you're talking about complex tissue engineering.
SENS is controversial at best (and utter bullshit in the eyes of many), I wouldn't go around touting it as the future of anti-aging research. Additionally caloric restriction has recently been shown to not work in humans and the early gains reported haven't translated well at all. Exercise is really the only potentially viable strategy you have mentioned.
While academia, especially at top tier institutions and mega-labs, is flawed, I would caution you to avoid jumping to conclusions because the pace of research is not to your liking. This isn't, as you so eloquently put it, painting a wall, it's a very complicated (and new) field that we still know very little about and are discovering new pitfalls every day.
Edit: Grammar
Re: A New—and Reversible—Cause of Aging
#54Re: A New—and Reversible—Cause of Aging
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's not how capitalism works. Your earning potential increases with your capital, eventually making talent and effort negligible factors.
The first generation makes the fortune, the second generation spends it, the third starts over.
Re: A New—and Reversible—Cause of Aging
#56Many of the problems surrounding funding of meaningful efforts to treat aging, eliminate age-related disease, and extend healthy life come about because the people with the biggest megaphones are also doing the least useful work. This is true outside the scientific community, in the "anti-aging" marketplace that tries to convince people they should take supplements rather than support research. This is true inside th…
It exists because you are dealing with humans. Genuinely new ideas tend to not get adopted until the old guard literally dies. They have turf to protect and it is an active disincentive to adopt new ideas, especially new ideas where you can fix things relatively cheaply and easily. There is money to be made in keeping problems alive. And people who don't understand how to fix it themselves tend to look to experts and trust their word rather than being skeptical that maybe the experts have a conflict of interest.
There is a lot that can be done currently and more simply than even your post suggests. A lot of it is "basic common sense." Studies often back up things like just eating right and exercising regularly -- which, really, people mostly don't want to do. They want a magic bullet that lets them do whatever they feel like and then magically fix the problems it creates. But Hollywood stars often already look 20 years younger than they really are and a lot of that is due to diet and exercise because their income depends in large part on their looks.
Another aspect of that is that people tend to discount damage that never occurred. So Hollywood actors and actresses who have successfully slowed the aging process instead of dramatically reversing the aging process are dismissed as not counting somehow. People tend to have a very hard time mentally counting something that was averted. It's just a very hard concept to even explain to most people. So we try to find more fuel efficient cars instead of promoting walking and public transit in part because it is easier to quantify the fuel savings and the difference in how the environment is impacted etc than if we just don't drive in the first place.
The factors involved are complex and do not boil down to regulation.
But thank you for your thought provoking comment.
Re: A New—and Reversible—Cause of Aging
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your original post is a huge tangent from the topic of discussion. That article is pure fearmongering and is exactly the type of propagandized information that stifles innovation. Obviously it makes sense to talk about the ramifications of new technology, but the article you linked is doing this in a heavy-handed way to get people to read the article. The result is disproportionate value being placed on that idea for…
No article stifles innovation unless some idiot reads it as scripture! Meanwhile what do you know about the average Daily Mail reader? Presumably you've researched the around 70 million readers (an exaggeration to be sure but it's a lot of people) who take a daily look at this popular newspaper. I rather think not. But that doesn't stop people like you making predictable and patronizing observations of this kind at e…
Re: A New—and Reversible—Cause of Aging
#58However, I'm concerned about implications of potentially high-price anti-aging treatments. Till now, death has been the great equalizer. Life is inherently unfair. If you are born in poverty there is high chances you'll stay there, but at least you always count on everyone dying at the end.
With high-price anti-aging treatments people who have wealth can live longer (maybe one day indefinitely) and accumulate more wealth and those without money will just dye twice or three times as fast with no way out of the cycle. You can argue historically we always had this type of divides, for example in early stages of invention of antibiotics or vaccines or ability to buy them in black market in areas where they were scarce. However, we're moving from preventing premature deaths to extending life beyond its natural extension and that brings a whole new set of issues.
Will there be enough retirement funds? If we do democratize anti-aging treatments, lets say increasing the average life span to 100 or 120. Will there be enough funding? As is, the social security is feeling the pressures of increased average life-span. So if we are able to make a 60 year olds be 20 (in some aspects of aging) or 90 year old to 30 and as the article alluded to, decrease the risk of cancers (perhaps). Then, who will pay to cover the retirement funding gap?
We're heading toward a world were you can choose to live longer and have the wealth to support your life for extended time, and those who will only live 1/2 or 1/3 as much just because they were born in a different household.
Among all the technological breakthroughs, anti-aging will probably have the biggest social impact and as a society we're not even thinking about it or are even preparing for it yet. But then again, if you have the money, why should you care.
Re: A New—and Reversible—Cause of Aging
#59Anti-aging divide? I'm all for anti-aging, I was obsessed by it since my teens and got a degree in molecular biology thinking I want to dedicate my life to it, I even own dontage.com. However, I'm concerned about implications of potentially high-price anti-aging treatments. Till now, death has been the great equalizer. Life is inherently unfair. If you are born in poverty there is high chances you'll stay there, but…
And anyways, who cares? Better that some people live longer than none do.
Re: A New—and Reversible—Cause of Aging
#60Many of the problems surrounding funding of meaningful efforts to treat aging, eliminate age-related disease, and extend healthy life come about because the people with the biggest megaphones are also doing the least useful work. This is true outside the scientific community, in the "anti-aging" marketplace that tries to convince people they should take supplements rather than support research. This is true inside th…
Spoken like a pragmatist and not a scientist. Your argument is the equivalent of arguing no one should bother with low level programming knowledge or understanding how functions work in Ruby/Python/etc. You're also talking like someone who has no experience with life sciences research at all and is an armchair expert. As someone who has dedicated a significant portion of my life and time to research in medical scienc…
To pick one example from the SENS portfolio - by which I mean the list of techniques developed in the scientific community for other reasons and adopted as useful by the SENS proponents - allotopic expression of mitochondrial genes is absolutely a way to fix protein expression issues. It is the delivery of proteins to rescue mitochondrial function. It has been demonstrated to work in mice with no side effects for a gene associated with LHON by two separate research groups now, neither of which were affiliated with the SENS Research Foundation when they started out.
This is serious science. You might not like it or be familiar with it, but you're missing out.
SENS is supported by a number of noted figures in the life sciences, including George Church, Anthony Atala, Judith Campisi, and so forth:
http://sens.org/about/leadership/research-advisory-board
There are detailed proposals for the development of therapies involved in SENS. These can be critiqued on their details. For example, allotopic expression of mitochondrial genes can be critiqued based on what has been done, the plans for the other genes, and how it is going so far.
You are behind the times on calorie restriction research. It works very well on all measures of health in primates except for longevity. That is the big puzzle in calorie restriction: how to explain this disparity, which ties in to explaining why humans live for an unusually long time. See this paper by Fontana:
http://impactaging.com/papers/v5/n7/full/100581.html
In general calorie restriction seems better than exercise if you are going to pick one or the other, which would be foolish of course. Do both. But don't expect it will help you be one of the 25% who survive past age 90, because the only thing likely to get you there is an early implementation of SENS. Unless the programmed aging camp is right, in which case there is nothing that can be produced in time to greatly help us. But given that implementing SENS is cheap in comparison to drug development - $1 billion and 20 years to get it working in mice - what's there to lose?