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Framework 7 – Building native iOS apps in HTML5

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Re: Framework 7 – Building native iOS apps in HTML5

#51

Post by wil421 »

my3681 wrote: post #14

I'm not knocking this or any particular xxxx-to-mobile platform, but as a native iOS and android developer, I would highly recommend just learning the native languages and frameworks. First, you have the absolute most control you will ever have over your application. This may not be true when a particular tool becomes popular, say at the release of a new tool, but this definitely shows up as time progresses. Who know…

>I'm not knocking this or any particular xxxx-to-mobile platform, but as a native iOS and android developer, I would highly recommend just learning the native languages and frameworks.

First off I agree that native wins over some bundled HTML5 app anyday of the week.

But for many reasons companies still choose to use phone gap or another framework to compile HTML into a native app. The first and foremost reason is that a lot of organizations have plenty of web devs available with skills to build web apps.

Managers would rather leverage the skills they already possess. Believe me I do web dev as part of my job and I still try to make the case that Native is better for mobile. In the end it is cheaper to use developers they already have with tools the devs a familiar with (HTML/JS) than to hire several new devs to code against different mobile OS's.

Right or wrong Managers and Organizations like cheaper and faster.

Re: Framework 7 – Building native iOS apps in HTML5

#52

Post by tluyben2 »

bmj wrote: post #42
my3681 wrote: post #14

I'm not knocking this or any particular xxxx-to-mobile platform, but as a native iOS and android developer, I would highly recommend just learning the native languages and frameworks. First, you have the absolute most control you will ever have over your application. This may not be true when a particular tool becomes popular, say at the release of a new tool, but this definitely shows up as time progresses. Who know…

As someone who has used several cross-platform frameworks (Titanium, Cordova/PhoneGap, investigating Xamarin), I have a question about going "full native": how do you handle shared core code? Our app has an engine that drives the business logic, and the cross-platform frameworks have been useful because we don't have to deal with modifying the core codebase for different platforms [0]. Is it possible to create platfo…

Xamarin is great for sharing code. You just rewrite the GUI layer per platform. It's great, cannot really say it any differently.

Re: Framework 7 – Building native iOS apps in HTML5

#53

Post by robmcm »

mikemoka wrote: post #35
stevekinney wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that only Safari gets access to Nitro (Nitro : Apple :: V8 : Google). Web Views inside native apps don't get access to Nitro. Even web apps that you save to your home screen don't get access to the faster rendering engine. This is apparently for security reasons. I think it's one of the biggest barriers to web apps being competitive on iOS. (The other is that there really isn't a good installation…

"security reasons" (= http://bit.ly/1d7p5Tq ) it would be interesting if they elaborate on those...

My understanding was that Safari used JIT which is prone to security issues with how it executes that code.

As to why it's safer to do so in Safar that in a webview must be because the only API to safar is from the JS/HTML/CSS but with a webview you have a C/ObjectiveC API from the other side, which may be harder to protect against.

[EDIT] - More information on the topic from Gruber http://daringfireball.net/2011/03/nitro_ios_43 although there is no reason given as to why a UIWebView is more at risk from exploits than Safari.

Re: Framework 7 – Building native iOS apps in HTML5

#54

Post by tluyben2 »

city41 wrote: post #39
skrowl wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With Xamarian being acquired by Microsoft, I'm really hoping to NOT have to learn native android / ios / windows phone development. I don't have time for that, and I'm already an expert in C#.

I regret investing in MonoTouch and wish I had instead just learned native iOS dev from the getgo. You need to at least be comfortable with native iOS dev to be effective with MonoTouch anyway. I have a MonoTouch written app that I can't do anything with unless I pay for a new version of MonoTouch as it's no longer compatible with current iOS releases. The constant song and dance between releases of MonoTouch and iOS…

I always recommend (and when it's about employees demand) people to first learn everything native in Objective-C/Java(/C# if you need wp8 as well) before trying to unify things with C#/Xamarin, C++ or JS. That way you have a solid understanding what is possible and you don't lock yourself in. That said; Xamarin rocks and I hope MS doesn't kill it.

Re: Framework 7 – Building native iOS apps in HTML5

#55

Post by mattgreenrocks »

bmj wrote: post #42
my3681 wrote: post #14

I'm not knocking this or any particular xxxx-to-mobile platform, but as a native iOS and android developer, I would highly recommend just learning the native languages and frameworks. First, you have the absolute most control you will ever have over your application. This may not be true when a particular tool becomes popular, say at the release of a new tool, but this definitely shows up as time progresses. Who know…

As someone who has used several cross-platform frameworks (Titanium, Cordova/PhoneGap, investigating Xamarin), I have a question about going "full native": how do you handle shared core code? Our app has an engine that drives the business logic, and the cross-platform frameworks have been useful because we don't have to deal with modifying the core codebase for different platforms [0]. Is it possible to create platfo…

This is the exact use case for Hexagonal/Clean Architecture: http://blog.groupbuddies.com/posts/20-clean-architecture

It is contentious on HN, but I implore you to draw your own conclusions.

Re: Framework 7 – Building native iOS apps in HTML5

#56

Post by tluyben2 »

EC1 wrote: post #40

This is honestly so pointless and bad for the community, further dividing up mobile technology. Why not just improve on something that already exists like jQM? "Building native iOS apps in HTML5". You're building them in HTML5, to look like iOS7, not exactly native now is it? This is the same thing as making a theme for jQuery Mobile. I clicked on this hoping to download something that converts my HTML5 app to native…

Did you ever try jQM? My god. I applaud any efforts to move away from it.

Re: Framework 7 – Building native iOS apps in HTML5

#57

Post by tluyben2 »

marknutter wrote: post #48
forgotAgain wrote: post #17

The limit we've run into with iOS is not getting a good looking UI. Rather it's the performance of Javascript in Safari. We have a fairly large one page webapp that looks great on iOS however the performance is an order of magnitude slower on an iPad than Chrome on an old laptop.

My take on this is that phones are only getting faster and people upgrade their phones far more frequently than they do their laptops/desktops. Compare what you're able to do with HTML5 apps today on modern phones to what you could do even 2 years ago and it's astonishing how fast things are progressing.

In the end HTML5 will work fine on phones. That'll take a few years yet though; currently it's shit. It's ok on an iPad, but compared to native, not so much. I like nice responsive HTML5 or HTML5 apps for stuff I use sometimes; like booking tickets, hotels, checking what's on TV and such. For stuff I click in all day long, like bugtrackers, PM systems, CRM, etc, HTML5 on mobile or desktop, is just wasting time. It's just not very nice to work with productively. This is improving fast on the desktop by building in provisions for being (temporarily) offline, easy drag & drop, offering small native plugins to interact with it, but it's not there yet.

On phones it's far from being a nice and productive experience; you can see that well when you 'quickly' check a task and end up trying to swipe something 10 times because it lags and swearing profusely. Which happens with all badly 'cross platform' written apps which are mostly HTML5.

Re: Framework 7 – Building native iOS apps in HTML5

#58

Post by Alphasite_ »

mikemoka wrote: post #35
stevekinney wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that only Safari gets access to Nitro (Nitro : Apple :: V8 : Google). Web Views inside native apps don't get access to Nitro. Even web apps that you save to your home screen don't get access to the faster rendering engine. This is apparently for security reasons. I think it's one of the biggest barriers to web apps being competitive on iOS. (The other is that there really isn't a good installation…

"security reasons" (= http://bit.ly/1d7p5Tq ) it would be interesting if they elaborate on those...

My understanding is that you would have to mark some of the apps pages as executable, iirc, which could allow for arbitrary code execution.

Re: Framework 7 – Building native iOS apps in HTML5

#59

Post by tluyben2 »

marknutter wrote: post #49
my3681 wrote: post #14

I'm not knocking this or any particular xxxx-to-mobile platform, but as a native iOS and android developer, I would highly recommend just learning the native languages and frameworks. First, you have the absolute most control you will ever have over your application. This may not be true when a particular tool becomes popular, say at the release of a new tool, but this definitely shows up as time progresses. Who know…

So if you want a web app, an android app, and an iPhone app, you have to code it up 3 different times in three different languages. The reason why the web exploded in popularity as a development target is precisely because it made it easier to target a larger number of customers. Imagine if Facebook had started out as a Windows XP / Linux / OSX native application. It never would have even got off the ground. My take…

I don't buy it. Enterprises definitely buy into that idea and they do have their employees work with these crippled apps because they have no other choice. But the experience for this 'CRUD' app is definitely not good enough. It's by forcing it that it gets used. It depends on how intensively it will be used in reality, but I definitely know quite a few companies who went from BYOD and an HTML5 Cordova app which was very intensely used to just buying Android devices for the employees and making a native app to boost productivity.

If you have to enter / search / whatever information in an app which is horrible to use (a BIT of lag can ruin your day; you tap/swipe; because of the lag it just responds a bit late, the keyboard pops for the wrong field or you submit accidentally; plop seconds lost and so is your good mood) all day, you're not going to want to work with crap. It's not 'good enough' even though management might think so.

Re: Framework 7 – Building native iOS apps in HTML5

#60

Post by Dogamondo »

I've had quite a lot of luck developing HTML/JS apps in Sencha Touch (very basic CRUD apps of course). Really noticed a speed improvement running the latest release on an iPhone 5S. Not sure how much room there really is for HTML/JS ports at this stage. Titanum was a let down for me. Am keen to try Xamarin next. Or just go native? Thoughts?...
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