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Meta’s entire 24-person team works and lives together in the same estate

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Re: Meta’s entire 24-person team works and lives together in the same estate

#51

Post by jboy »

Many of the comments in this thread are depressingly similar to same-sex slut-shaming.

"I can't or don't want to do that, so I don't think you should be allowed to do that either. I'm going to judge you and speak badly of you, to try to punish you for doing something I don't want to, and discourage you and others from doing something I don't want to."

Meta is a start-up (cool) creating augmented reality (very cool) hardware (even more cool) for interactive interaction with virtual overlays (just unbelievably cool). I'm a computer vision / computer graphics guy, and everything about this project looks technologically awesome, with potentially world-changing applications.

They went through YC and are still getting positive press, so the start-up is looking about as successful as a start-up at this stage can be.

I bet you that every single one of the employees loves this idea, loves working on it, and honestly believes that Meta is going to change the world and be the next Apple. When I was in my twenties, I worked crazy hours and slept under my desk for a lot less.

EDIT: Added the word "same-sex" before "slut-shaming" to clarify the comparison I'm making.

Re: Meta’s entire 24-person team works and lives together in the same estate

#52

Post by mjn »

renang wrote: post #26

I see myself doing this for a short period of time, say one or week. That's actually a plan I am making with some friends/coders. We may rent a nice villa somewhere in Spain for two weeks. Get some buzz and some work done. Would be nice to have ideas flowing and in the end we may leave with a product.

That kind of "retreat" is a bit more conventional I think. It's fairly common at large companies to occasionally send a team to Vail or Hawaii or a cruise or something for a week for team-building / brainstorming / etc. But you don't usually bring your family and actually move in with your coworkers; it's more of a business trip.

In a more researchy direction, there's a German institute that organizes these kinds of events. They have a castle in the middle of nowhere, Schloss Dagstuhl, which accepts proposals from people who want to use it to organize 1-week residential seminars on different subjects: http://www.dagstuhl.de/en/program/dagstuhl-seminars/

Re: Meta’s entire 24-person team works and lives together in the same estate

#53

Post by quesera »

I don't know about Portola Valley zoning regs, but I hope this article doesn't draw unwanted attention to Meta's arrangement.

Many/most towns would frown on the number of unrelated people living in a unpermitted hotel, operating a business with more than a certain number of employees in a non commercial district, etc.

Legal or not, it sounds like fun for a couple years, if you're young enough to see appeal in dorm life.

Re: Meta’s entire 24-person team works and lives together in the same estate

#54

Post by rayiner »

netcan wrote: post #48
mseebach wrote: post #21

Yup. We're all liberal pluralists. Live and let live. Except, of course, for employment choices. We all agree that traditional working environments with all their industrial era baggage sucks, but if I don't leave on the minute after a 40 hours work week, and I don't get paid overtime (so much for the industrial era baggage) it's incontrovertible evidence of rampant exploitation. Employees to claim to like their work…

I agree. There is a lot of baked in dishonesty relating to careers and jobs and such. It's very tied in to people's identity and realities often unpleasant to deal with. Many of us spend most our lives in a way we don't like. That's a tough pill. Some aspects of it can be dehumanizing emasculating (for men, of course) or demeaning in other ways. In any case I think working life feeds you ills that are hard to swallow…

> A knowledge company in 2014 is different to a factory in 1893 and they are both new on the grander scale.

Yet this living situation isn't that much of a stretch from the dormitory-style housing you still see in China for factory workers, or the company towns you saw in the U.S. for mine workers and the like.

Re: Meta’s entire 24-person team works and lives together in the same estate

#55

Post by rayiner »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #14
huhtenberg wrote: post #9

This is seriously f#cked up. I can understand 3-4 people who are equals between themselves pulling this off, but with 24 people there's no way everyone likes the arrangement, so having everyone to be in it 24/7 is wrong.

I think it's safe to assume everyone there is pretty ok with it. It's not like anyone there doesn't have 3 recruiters/week asking them if they want a more traditional arrangement.

The negative reaction isn't because anybody thinks those engineers are being held against their will. It's to avoid the race to the bottom that could happen when some fad-addled PHB decides that nerd labor camps are the latest hot trend.

Mechanisms of social disapproval don't exist because anybody cares overmuch for the choices of a few people. They exist to forestall potential trends.

Re: Meta’s entire 24-person team works and lives together in the same estate

#57

Post by doesnt_know »

jboy wrote: post #51

Many of the comments in this thread are depressingly similar to same-sex slut-shaming. "I can't or don't want to do that, so I don't think you should be allowed to do that either. I'm going to judge you and speak badly of you, to try to punish you for doing something I don't want to, and discourage you and others from doing something I don't want to." Meta is a start-up (cool) creating augmented reality (very cool) h…

The comments in here are absolutely nothing like slut-shaming. It's insulting you even equate the two.

Sexism is a such huge issue (especially in this industry) that you should probably consider educating yourself before you vomit ignorant comments about it.

Re: Meta’s entire 24-person team works and lives together in the same estate

#58

Post by yummyfajitas »

rayiner wrote: post #55
yummyfajitas wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's safe to assume everyone there is pretty ok with it. It's not like anyone there doesn't have 3 recruiters/week asking them if they want a more traditional arrangement.

The negative reaction isn't because anybody thinks those engineers are being held against their will. It's to avoid the race to the bottom that could happen when some fad-addled PHB decides that nerd labor camps are the latest hot trend. Mechanisms of social disapproval don't exist because anybody cares overmuch for the choices of a few people. They exist to forestall potential trends.

Ok - this negative reaction is to prevent others from competing with us in dimensions we can't win on.

Thanks for putting it out in the open so we can discuss it directly.

Re: Meta’s entire 24-person team works and lives together in the same estate

#59

Post by rayiner »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #58
rayiner wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The negative reaction isn't because anybody thinks those engineers are being held against their will. It's to avoid the race to the bottom that could happen when some fad-addled PHB decides that nerd labor camps are the latest hot trend. Mechanisms of social disapproval don't exist because anybody cares overmuch for the choices of a few people. They exist to forestall potential trends.

Ok - this negative reaction is to prevent others from competing with us in dimensions we can't win on. Thanks for putting it out in the open so we can discuss it directly.

I'd say it's more a matter of "preventing others from dragging down society to competing at a level we as a group don't find socially acceptable." This is a legitimate function of society, and opprobrium and derision is a key tool for enforcing social norms that keep a check on undesirable behavior.

Re: Meta’s entire 24-person team works and lives together in the same estate

#60

Post by jboy »

doesnt_know wrote: post #57
jboy wrote: post #51

Many of the comments in this thread are depressingly similar to same-sex slut-shaming. "I can't or don't want to do that, so I don't think you should be allowed to do that either. I'm going to judge you and speak badly of you, to try to punish you for doing something I don't want to, and discourage you and others from doing something I don't want to." Meta is a start-up (cool) creating augmented reality (very cool) h…

The comments in here are absolutely nothing like slut-shaming. It's insulting you even equate the two. Sexism is a such huge issue (especially in this industry) that you should probably consider educating yourself before you vomit ignorant comments about it.

Your mention of sexism in the technology industry suggests to me that you interpreted my comment as men slut-shaming women. I agree that sexism in the technology industry is an important and sensitive issue.

My comment wasn't intended to suggest one gender slut-shaming the other gender; people of a gender can (and certainly do) slut-shame members of that same gender to control them and keep them in line. This is the comparison I was making.

In retrospect, I see that my comment was not sufficiently clear in this regard. Please re-consider my comment from this clarified point of view.

My point is that many of the comments in this thread suggest that Meta is like a cult or a sweatshop, or that the situation is "fucked up", etc. The commenters are implicitly trying to punish Meta for engaging in a behaviour with which those commenters do not agree.

What is wrong with someone choosing to devote themselves to a start-up about which they are enthusiastic? What's wrong with believing in something and devoting yourself to it for a while? Does it hurt anyone other than themselves? Why then is it so important for other people to disparage that person's choice so vocally?

Likewise, what is so wrong about a company where enthusiastic employees live in this arrangement? If you accept my axiom that the employees are enthusiastic about the start-up (based upon the reasons I outlined in my original comment), then why is this arrangement "fucked up"?

I hope you will re-consider your assertion that I am uneducated and that I am vomiting ignorant comments.

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