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When Carl Icahn Ran a Company: The Story of TWA

blog.pmarca.com

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Re: When Carl Icahn Ran a Company: The Story of TWA

#51

Post by debt »

argumentum wrote: post #30

In my view, after his humiliation by Apple's board, Carl Icahn feels his power (and by proxy the power of wall street) slowly and surely being stripped away by tech. This is at the root of his obsession with pmarca, who famously claimed that "software is eating the world." The world that's being eaten is the world of Icahn and wall street financiers like him. The tech industry has its own source of finance (namely an…

The power of the street powers tech. All of the largest tech IPOs in recent memory were organized by investment firms such as Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley. Basically, tech in it's current iteration wouldn't exist without the street and well-structured IPOs.

Not saying I like it, just saying it's reality.

Also, Carl Icahn introduces the idea corporate democracy which is a good thing considering how much influence corporations have over our lives. The idea that at least one person can affect the outcomes of a large company like ebay perhaps shows other large firms they have the same potential.

I imagine a future where there are kickstarter-like shell entities which acquire large shares of important corporations and where backers can all vote where Exxon chooses to drill next or which companies Google should be acquiring(obviously GOOG is a bad example because they've been doing so well but hopefully you get the idea).

I know this is the basic idea behind holding shares, but perhaps the voting power can be more evenly distributing in these shell entities. In the current structure one share doesn't get you much voting power in a corporation.

Re: When Carl Icahn Ran a Company: The Story of TWA

#53

Post by drawkbox »

If everyone was like Icahn, we'd already be through a few revolutions. He likes to engineer market events just ask Apple. Like this article said, he does this to the detriment of everyone around and destroys value. Marc creates value and companies and Icahn from what I have seen previous and here, likes to create money for himself out of destroying that value. When the world says don't, he says Icahn.

Re: When Carl Icahn Ran a Company: The Story of TWA

#54

Post by dpcheng2003 »

argumentum wrote: post #30

In my view, after his humiliation by Apple's board, Carl Icahn feels his power (and by proxy the power of wall street) slowly and surely being stripped away by tech. This is at the root of his obsession with pmarca, who famously claimed that "software is eating the world." The world that's being eaten is the world of Icahn and wall street financiers like him. The tech industry has its own source of finance (namely an…

I can't presume to understand Carl Icahn (as you admitted as well) but IMHO, this is untrue and can lead fellow HNers into an echo chamber.

First, Wall Street's role in capital markets towers over Silicon Valley. Venture Capital Assets Under Management is approximately $200 billion. Blackrock, the world's largest fund, has $4.3 trillion AUM.

Second, while I believe pmarca acted entirely in good faith and is legally in the clear, there is enough "there" to begin fighting a proxy war. For example, the (tech) market was more forgiving when Dan Loeb fought Yahoo because it got the outcome we wanted (Marissa joining, Yahoo focusing).

Let's not conflate what is arguably an ill-advised but legally legitimate proxy war with a misdirected turf war between finance and tech. As a point of reference, I'm a tech co-founder (who poorly codes) and a former investment banker.

Re: When Carl Icahn Ran a Company: The Story of TWA

#56

Post by socrates1998 »

jcampbell1 wrote: post #10

For those that don't know what is going on, here is the backstory: Carl Icahn has recently bought a bunch of ebay stock. He has claimed the company is mismanaged. He has also personally attacked Marc Andreesen. Here is the accusation from Ichan: 1) Marc Andreesen was/is on ebay's board. 2) While on ebay's board, Marc bought most of Skype from eBay. 3) He flipped Skype to Microsoft in less than 2 years, earning himsel…

I don't get why anyone would believe anything Carl Icahn says.

It blows my mind how people can be fooled by money.

Icahn is professional liar and has profited greatly from his ability to fool and deceive.

I don't know the whole story behind this, but Icahn calling out Andreesen for enriching himself at the expense of a company is laughable. The pot calling the kettle black.

Regardless, it's too super rich guys throwing feces at each other.

I have a slight inclination to believe Andreesen, but who knows, really.

Re: When Carl Icahn Ran a Company: The Story of TWA

#57

Post by 3327 »

jcampbell1 wrote: post #10

For those that don't know what is going on, here is the backstory: Carl Icahn has recently bought a bunch of ebay stock. He has claimed the company is mismanaged. He has also personally attacked Marc Andreesen. Here is the accusation from Ichan: 1) Marc Andreesen was/is on ebay's board. 2) While on ebay's board, Marc bought most of Skype from eBay. 3) He flipped Skype to Microsoft in less than 2 years, earning himsel…

Carl Icahn is scum. He does serve a purpose, and scum cleans out scum every once in a while. But I believe he is a virus and a destructive force dismantling companies for personal gain. Although he is scum, if there were virus's like him, large companies would live on forever and have nothing to fear. Interesting mechanics at work.

Re: When Carl Icahn Ran a Company: The Story of TWA

#58

Post by protomyth »

refurb wrote: post #44
auctiontheory wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was just about to post exactly this. Anyone interested in what Wall Street actually does needs to watch this movie. I have an MBA. I have nothing against making money. But while it's possible to make money by creating something of value , it's unfortunately possible to make even more money while doing the opposite.

From what I've read, Icahn argues that the companieshe's going up against aren't do a good job of running the company. If that's true, Icahn is doing shareholders a service.

Given what he did with TWA and reselling tickets, its hard to think that served any other shareholder but himself.

Re: When Carl Icahn Ran a Company: The Story of TWA

#59

Post by lotsofmangos »

johnny635 wrote: post #28
jcampbell1 wrote: post #10

For those that don't know what is going on, here is the backstory: Carl Icahn has recently bought a bunch of ebay stock. He has claimed the company is mismanaged. He has also personally attacked Marc Andreesen. Here is the accusation from Ichan: 1) Marc Andreesen was/is on ebay's board. 2) While on ebay's board, Marc bought most of Skype from eBay. 3) He flipped Skype to Microsoft in less than 2 years, earning himsel…

Marc Andreesen should be in jail over that Skype flip.

Would you like a biscuit?

Re: When Carl Icahn Ran a Company: The Story of TWA

#60

Post by chipotle_coyote »

refurb wrote: post #44
auctiontheory wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was just about to post exactly this. Anyone interested in what Wall Street actually does needs to watch this movie. I have an MBA. I have nothing against making money. But while it's possible to make money by creating something of value , it's unfortunately possible to make even more money while doing the opposite.

From what I've read, Icahn argues that the companieshe's going up against aren't do a good job of running the company. If that's true, Icahn is doing shareholders a service.

Well, let's look at the TWA story related here. Icahn took the company private just three years after buying it, then started relentlessly selling off assets. At the time it went private, he owned 77% of the company's outstanding shares -- so he was far and away the biggest beneficiary of that move, and he effectively cut the remaining 23% of the shareholders out of the profits he made by dismantling the airline over the next few years.

It's possible that TWA couldn't have been turned around and selling it off was really the best return he could get on his investment -- but I think it's at least debatable whether Icahn did anyone else much of a service. The other shareholders got to exit a company they'd lost faith in and hopefully made some money in the process, but that seems to be it as far as silver linings go.

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