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Don't Ban “Bossy”

newyorker.com

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Re: Don't Ban “Bossy”

#51

Post by kaliblack »

6d0debc071 wrote: post #35
jedmeyers wrote: post #5

I understand that this is a touchy subject, especially on HN, but come on: "Avoid editing what you want to say in your head, and try not to worry about being wrong." This is straight from their Leadership Tips for Girls pdf. They are encouraging girls to just say whatever comes to mind. What's next - calling everyone who disagrees "sexist"?

That is highly disingenuous. The advice they gave, in context, was: 1.Speak Up _ in Class _ Raise your hand, even when you’re not sure about the answer. Avoid editing what you want to say in your head, and try not to worry about being wrong. Speaking up isn’t about having the perfect answer. It gives you the experience of thinking on your feet, debating with others, and wrestling with an idea—all crucial skills that…

I like that the leadership tips were generally about building confidence, instead of playing the victim as would be expected by the campaign name (as long as you ignore the intro copy).

Really the only tip that matters is tip #9, which basically says people will give you shit but do it anyway. This is something all kids need to learn.

Re: Don't Ban “Bossy”

#52

Post by stefantalpalaru »

Steko wrote: post #9
wyager wrote: post #4

I'm immediately extraordinarily skeptical about anything that suggests solving a cultural problem by changing language. That's like trying to solve a math problem by changing the value of pi.

When culture changes shouldn't language that reflects outdated culture also change? Racial slurs aren't acceptable anymore. No one thinks that change is what brought about the civil rights movement, but it's obviously a consequence of it that also contributed to the whole movement in a positive feedback loop.

> Racial slurs aren't acceptable anymore.

They are, but their usage is limited to linguistic segregation. Nothing better to keep people in check than enforcing a correlation between the words they are allowed to use and the color of their skin.

Re: Don't Ban “Bossy”

#53

Post by chongli »

chilldream wrote: post #46
iterationx wrote: post #45

While feminists were busy telling the world about the dire need to ban the word “bossy,” the Iraqi parliament was considering the implementation of a new law that would legalize rape, prohibit women leaving home without the permission of their husband, and legalize marriage for 9-year-olds. “If passed, the law will apply to Iraq’s Shia Muslims, the majority of the population. Provisions include prohibiting Muslim men…

I agree with the article, but "There are Starving Kids in Africa" is a stock bad argument

Yep, it's a fallacy too:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_relative_privation

Re: Don't Ban “Bossy”

#54

Post by [deleted] »

skore wrote: post #43

(I didn't even know the "Ban Bossy" campaign existed, so I guess my comment is more about that and goes along with what the article is saying.) Looking at the videos - to an outsider like myself, they look massively ridiculous. So there is a societal problem where girls are either not empowered to lead or are discouraged from leading by others. To stop that practice, we will get rid of calling them a specific word. W…

[deleted]

Re: Don't Ban “Bossy”

#55

Post by dkrich »

wcummings wrote: post #48

I'm impressed by how much people are missing the point. It's just about raising awareness of how young girls are treated, no one is actually banning any words.

Then maybe they shouldn't have led with the name "Ban Bossy?"

If you create a marketing campaign and it is misinterpreted by what is presumably largely your target group (men who don't realize their words are apparently harming girls during their formative years) the fault is yours, not your audience.

Re: Don't Ban “Bossy”

#56

Post by mildtrepidation »

From BanBossy.org:

When a little boy asserts himself, he's called a “leader.” Yet when a little girl does the same, she risks being branded “bossy.” Words like bossy send a message: don't raise your hand or speak up. By middle school, girls are less interested in leading than boys—a trend that continues into adulthood. Together we can encourage girls to lead.

So yes, as others have said here, the goal is not necessarily (or only) to get rid of the usage of the word. But as is very evident from other responses, that is not immediately obvious to everyone, in no small part because of the arguably poor catch phrase being used.

I'm also not thrilled with some of the 'motivational' phrases being thrown around. "I'm not bossy; I'm the boss" (Beyonce) is not constructive. It's puerile and is more likely to encourage actual bossy behavior (the negative kind, as defined well elsewhere in this thread) than to help introduce equality in the way we encourage leadership attributes in all children.

Not, of course, that equality seems to be emphasized here. Which is a typical problem and one that's unlikely to help this campaign make a real difference, as it's immediately exclusive to some degree rather than encouraging everyone to be confident.

Re: Don't Ban “Bossy”

#57

Post by cushychicken »

You can see how this campaign of proclaiming "bossy" to no longer be gender neutral has caused me (a heterosexual white male) some serious gender identity issues, as I was frequently called "bossy" as a child.

Does this mean I'm actually a woman?

Re: Don't Ban “Bossy”

#58

Post by SnydenBitchy »

Wow, the “discussion” here validates every negative stereotype about the tech community, you troglodytes who I’m embarrassed to call my peers. I wonder if it’s it too late, at 31, for me to change careers?

Re: Don't Ban “Bossy”

#59

Post by Ambrosia »

mschuster91 wrote: post #25
adamnemecek wrote: post #2

I saw the video a couple of days ago and it was flabbergasting that someone thought that this whole thing is going to achieve anything.

It's just feminists. Western version of the Taliban, if you ask me.

yes obviously feminists were the real ones behind 9/11

Re: Don't Ban “Bossy”

#60

Post by judk »

hga wrote: post #41
calibraxis wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Sandberg-style liberal feminism (which preserves inequality except for the more well-off white women and therefore doesn't help all women), I can imagine they want to improve subordination to female bosses. So you should be ready to follow her imperatives like you would Zuckerberg's. In corporations, boss subordination is so complete that "bossy" only applies to someone who isn't actually literally a boss. So I ca…

In alignment with your observation, this campaign is thought by some to be battlespace preparation for Hillary's 2016 presidential campaign.

Oh my. That is brilliant submarine marketing.
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