Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey • Hacker News Board

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#51

Post by dangoldin » Fri, Mar 14, 2014, 7:54 PM UTC

xal wrote: post #34

nlh wrote: post #24

His best line: > The rationale given for the regulation change that requires auto companies to sell through dealers is that it ensures 'consumer protection'. If you believe this, Gov. Christie has a bridge closure he wants to sell you! Unless they are referring to the mafia version of 'protection', this is obviously untrue. Nicely done, Elon. Nicely done.

Could you explain the reference please?

There was a scandal in NJ where Chris Christie's underlings were caught closing a bridge when they didn't get political support from a mayor.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/01/chris-christie-b...

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#52

Post by revelation » Fri, Mar 14, 2014, 7:54 PM UTC

jusben1369 wrote: post #29

Musk is massively disingenuous and rather insulting to our intelligence. But he's a heck of a salesman and makes a wonderful car. Like many persuasive people he arrives at an answer and backs into rationale but makes it appear the other way around. I'll give you just one example. The law of the land in NJ is that you can't sell in NJ unless through a dealership. That's the current law. Those laws need to change to al…

I think you missed the part where they instituted new rules effective starting in April, which is when the existing Tesla stores will be reduced to galleries.

In your vigor, you seem to have misled only yourself.

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#53

Post by smacktoward » Fri, Mar 14, 2014, 7:54 PM UTC

> The evidence is clear: when has an American startup auto company ever succeeded by selling through auto dealers? The last successful American car company was Chrysler, which was founded almost a century ago, and even they went bankrupt a few years ago, along with General Motors. Since the founding of Chrysler, there have been dozens of failures, Tucker and DeLorean being simply the most well-known. In recent years, electric car startups, such as Fisker, Coda, and many others, attempted to use auto dealers and all failed.

This part works better as an argument for "don't start a car company" than anything else.

I mean, yes, Tucker and DeLorean and Fisker et al used dealers, and they all failed, but that doesn't mean that they failed because they used dealers. The people who worked for them all consumed oxygen, too; it doesn't follow that we'd all be driving DeLoreans today if only we lived in an artificial vacuum.

I appreciate where he's coming from, and I think he should be allowed to sell his cars directly to anyone who wants to buy one that way, but shoddy "correlation equals causation" arguments don't help his case.

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#54

Post by Karunamon » Fri, Mar 14, 2014, 7:54 PM UTC

xal wrote: post #34

nlh wrote: post #24

His best line: > The rationale given for the regulation change that requires auto companies to sell through dealers is that it ensures 'consumer protection'. If you believe this, Gov. Christie has a bridge closure he wants to sell you! Unless they are referring to the mafia version of 'protection', this is obviously untrue. Nicely done, Elon. Nicely done.

Could you explain the reference please?

Gov. Christie is currently being investigated for closing lanes down on a highway bridge during rush hour as a form of retribution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Lee_lane_closure_scandal

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#55

Post by saket123 » Fri, Mar 14, 2014, 7:55 PM UTC

xal wrote: post #34

nlh wrote: post #24

His best line: > The rationale given for the regulation change that requires auto companies to sell through dealers is that it ensures 'consumer protection'. If you believe this, Gov. Christie has a bridge closure he wants to sell you! Unless they are referring to the mafia version of 'protection', this is obviously untrue. Nicely done, Elon. Nicely done.

Could you explain the reference please?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Lee_lane_closure_scandal

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#56

Post by cheald » Fri, Mar 14, 2014, 7:55 PM UTC

djKianoosh wrote: post #33

mrt0mat0 wrote: post #7

It blows my mind that in a country that preaches a free-market economy, the government is preventing a company from selling a superior product. I'm pretty sure people will still buy the car if they want to, and in time, those car companies will go under anyway, but why slow down progress?

while "superior" is subjective, i agree it's best to let the market decide naturally, instead of putting up barriers...

Things like the Consumer Reports ratings and the Motor Trend "Car of the year" award are pretty objective. You're right that it's subjective, but there's empirical evidence that a lot of people feel it's superior.

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#57

Post by thedufer » Fri, Mar 14, 2014, 7:55 PM UTC

jusben1369 wrote: post #29

Musk is massively disingenuous and rather insulting to our intelligence. But he's a heck of a salesman and makes a wonderful car. Like many persuasive people he arrives at an answer and backs into rationale but makes it appear the other way around. I'll give you just one example. The law of the land in NJ is that you can't sell in NJ unless through a dealership. That's the current law. Those laws need to change to al…

They're currently selling Teslas in NJ (without a middleman) and not having any legal problems because of it, so your example's premise seems to be flawed.

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#58

Post by acomjean » Fri, Mar 14, 2014, 7:55 PM UTC

xal wrote: post #34

nlh wrote: post #24

His best line: > The rationale given for the regulation change that requires auto companies to sell through dealers is that it ensures 'consumer protection'. If you believe this, Gov. Christie has a bridge closure he wants to sell you! Unless they are referring to the mafia version of 'protection', this is obviously untrue. Nicely done, Elon. Nicely done.

Could you explain the reference please?

I used to work in NJ.

Chris Christie's administration closed 3 lanes of the George Washington Bridge for a bogus "traffic study", making tons of Traffic. It was political payback against the city of Fort Lee who has a mayor who wouldn't endorse Christie when he was running for governor. Christie says he didn't know about it but some in his administration have left or been asked to leave over it.

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#59

Post by jrs99 » Fri, Mar 14, 2014, 7:55 PM UTC

Edmond wrote: post #32

I hope people don't forget the profit motive of Mr Musk. It seems technology entrepreneurs have adopted the rhetoric of "just trying to make the world a better place" while conveniently ignoring their own profit making motives. I am no friend of car dealers but I am also not going to be suckered by a self-serving sales pitch. While I don't necessarily support the NJ move, I think we should start asking questions abou…

Well, if local businesses choose the services that save them a lot of money it'll probably make them more profitable and allow them to grow and hire more people.

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#60

Post by mullingitover » Fri, Mar 14, 2014, 7:56 PM UTC

xal wrote: post #34

nlh wrote: post #24

His best line: > The rationale given for the regulation change that requires auto companies to sell through dealers is that it ensures 'consumer protection'. If you believe this, Gov. Christie has a bridge closure he wants to sell you! Unless they are referring to the mafia version of 'protection', this is obviously untrue. Nicely done, Elon. Nicely done.

Could you explain the reference please?

Gov. Christie's office ordered the most heavily trafficked bridge in the country (if not the world) closed for political revenge. He is desperately trying to throw his staff under the bus to avoid accountability for this. It's a very delicate subject for him right now, and Musk bringing it up is cruel and yet at the same time (imho) totally fair play.