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Cory Doctorow: How startups of Silicon Roundabout are gradually being flattened

theguardian.com

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Re: Cory Doctorow: How startups of Silicon Roundabout are gradually being flattened

#51

Post by ses »

onmydesk wrote: post #37

This is what is wrong with the UK. Bubble property prices all over the country. And relative to incomes it is ALL OVER the country. Everyone over 40 has a buy to let portfolio and those under 40 are stuck in rented property with few rights. Did you know in the uk if you rent you can be evicted for no reason at all? And if you will not or can not pay bubble prices for property you have to rent, live in poorly maintain…

I fully agree with most of what you're saying, but I'm not sure where the degree of capitalism involved comes in. I think it has much more to do with the lack of creativity in government that you mention. Ultimately it does feel like younger generations are the fuel for the engines that drive the UK economy.

Re: Cory Doctorow: How startups of Silicon Roundabout are gradually being flattened

#52

Post by neverminder »

lmm wrote: post #41
pjc50 wrote: post #10

Nothing in London is quite so profitable as property development. I suppose this is the continuation of the process of sweeping away the derelict bits of Hackney for the 2012 Olympics. It would be nice if economic activity wasn't quite so concentrated in unaffordable London. But I can feel the wave of money washing over the built environment even out here in Cambridge ("Silicon Fen"); it's just about commutable to No…

Industry goes where it wants - if we try and stop these companies from basing themselves in London, the competition isn't other parts of the UK, it's Berlin or Singapore or Shanghai. Central planning of industry has a pretty poor history.

I'm in UK and I've been eyeing Berlin for a while now. The rent prices for offices/accommodation seems to be a fraction of those in London. Also startup community in Berlin seems to be booming.

Re: Cory Doctorow: How startups of Silicon Roundabout are gradually being flattened

#53

Post by mattgibson »

gaius wrote: post #27
pjc50 wrote: post #10

Nothing in London is quite so profitable as property development. I suppose this is the continuation of the process of sweeping away the derelict bits of Hackney for the 2012 Olympics. It would be nice if economic activity wasn't quite so concentrated in unaffordable London. But I can feel the wave of money washing over the built environment even out here in Cambridge ("Silicon Fen"); it's just about commutable to No…

What is the value of a building? To me it seems obvious that a building is an asset and what you want from it is the income from the rents, and the value of it is the NPV of future rents. Anything else is bubbly.

The source of the value is mostly the land, rather than the building. When prices rise, it's actually the land value rising, but we talk about it like 'house prices' are going up.

Causes a guaranteed bubble as you can't make more land, so price rises are not followed by increased production causing the price to fall again.

Re: Cory Doctorow: How startups of Silicon Roundabout are gradually being flattened

#54

Post by smikhanov »

pjc50 wrote: post #10

Nothing in London is quite so profitable as property development. I suppose this is the continuation of the process of sweeping away the derelict bits of Hackney for the 2012 Olympics. It would be nice if economic activity wasn't quite so concentrated in unaffordable London. But I can feel the wave of money washing over the built environment even out here in Cambridge ("Silicon Fen"); it's just about commutable to No…

It's actually interesting to note that office property in SV is anything but cheap and as a construction project (I believe) is just as attractive for developers as a typical derelict block in East London. However, this does not stop SV from being SV.

Let's face it: some of the offices around Old City Roundabout are pretty grim. Bad plumbing, windows overlooking someone's wall or a dumpyard, barely working HVAC, you name it. What is that the startups have to lose? If all those old office blocks will be demolished and will be replaced with a shiny new one, that's fine. Sure, Last.fm will need to move elsewhere and a new tenant in the building most likely will be KPMG, DLA Piper or RBS, but it's not that that hypothetical Last.fm will have nowhere to move. There are still plenty of cheap grim office property around (in Croydon, for example) but the borough only wins from getting rid of the old ones.

All in all, if a London startup ecosystem is here to stay, gentrification is too unimportant of a problem to kill it.

Re: Cory Doctorow: How startups of Silicon Roundabout are gradually being flattened

#55

Post by mattgibson »

pjc50 wrote: post #10

Nothing in London is quite so profitable as property development. I suppose this is the continuation of the process of sweeping away the derelict bits of Hackney for the 2012 Olympics. It would be nice if economic activity wasn't quite so concentrated in unaffordable London. But I can feel the wave of money washing over the built environment even out here in Cambridge ("Silicon Fen"); it's just about commutable to No…

"we lack the leadership to resist this"

Many of our 'leadership' (1/3 of MPs in fact: http://pastebin.com/1249K1N4) have large buy to let portfolios and don't give a toss if the economy crumbles if it makes them richer.

Re: Cory Doctorow: How startups of Silicon Roundabout are gradually being flattened

#56

Post by mpclark »

marvin wrote: post #49
mpclark wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everyone over 40 has a buy to let portfolio and those under 40 are stuck in rented property with few rights. Never seen it put so pithily, and yes, that's exactly how it feels.

Norway is mostly the same these days. Maybe it's a Northern European phenomenon. Of course, there is an upside to this: By renting, you are not taking on the risk of a fall in real estate prices. But I'm not sure if the fewer rights make up for it. You can't be "evicted" for no reason over here, but to my understanding it is legal to have renting contracts with a 1-month notice to termination. So it's more or less th…

I get the feeling that the government in the UK is managing the economy solely to make sure house prices do not fall as that would cause a national crisis at this point. Under any other circumstances they would surely have collapsed by now.

The other problem is that the rental stock in the UK is managed almost exclusively by amateur landlords, which leads to petty restrictions (no pets, no smoking, no drilling, no decorating etc), attempts to sell houses out from under the occupier ("You don't mind if we show some people round every now and then, do you?" The hell I don't!) and hard-to-quantify risks (I know somebody with an older landlord who is now undergoing another round of treatment for cancer; putting the human tragedy aside, should they start looking for another place now, or can they wait a while?)

Re: Cory Doctorow: How startups of Silicon Roundabout are gradually being flattened

#57

Post by pjc50 »

lmm wrote: post #41
pjc50 wrote: post #10

Nothing in London is quite so profitable as property development. I suppose this is the continuation of the process of sweeping away the derelict bits of Hackney for the 2012 Olympics. It would be nice if economic activity wasn't quite so concentrated in unaffordable London. But I can feel the wave of money washing over the built environment even out here in Cambridge ("Silicon Fen"); it's just about commutable to No…

Industry goes where it wants - if we try and stop these companies from basing themselves in London, the competition isn't other parts of the UK, it's Berlin or Singapore or Shanghai. Central planning of industry has a pretty poor history.

Yes and no; a lot depends on the competence with which it's done. It's not turned out too badly for China or South Korea.

There's a strong case for having a proper property tax (to central govt) in London. If we're going to have a boom then then at least we should benefit from it.

Admittedly there's hardly anyone in Parliament I trust even to be basically competent in this kind of planning, let alone honest.

Re: Cory Doctorow: How startups of Silicon Roundabout are gradually being flattened

#58

Post by adwf »

duncanawoods wrote: post #26
gutnor wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, silicon roundabout is at 5 min walking distance of the heart of the city of London, so any kind of success would have priced them out. The council is doing what their own success would have been doing in a few years. It would have required tremendous effort by the government to maintain the right balance of cheap business place and accommodation required to let the community survive. 100 meters away from one of…

I agree that startups in central London is pretty daft. Bit like choosing Manhattan with good views of the park. I like Bristol. 90 mins from the big smoke, decent airport and railway hub, more chilled and counter-culture than South/South-East, closer to countryside, climbing and surfing. Has a history of new and high-tech like chip fabs and renewables. Oh and its not the North :)

I second Bristol as a recommendation. Great city, good university, decent rents and a long history of great engineering. They could call it Silicon Hill...

Re: Cory Doctorow: How startups of Silicon Roundabout are gradually being flattened

#59

Post by gaius »

onmydesk wrote: post #37

This is what is wrong with the UK. Bubble property prices all over the country. And relative to incomes it is ALL OVER the country. Everyone over 40 has a buy to let portfolio and those under 40 are stuck in rented property with few rights. Did you know in the uk if you rent you can be evicted for no reason at all? And if you will not or can not pay bubble prices for property you have to rent, live in poorly maintain…

Did you know in the uk if you rent you can be evicted for no reason at all?

That is simply not true. Evicting anyone is a long, drawn-out process, even if they stop paying the rent!

Re: Cory Doctorow: How startups of Silicon Roundabout are gradually being flattened

#60

Post by onmydesk »

gaius wrote: post #59
onmydesk wrote: post #37

This is what is wrong with the UK. Bubble property prices all over the country. And relative to incomes it is ALL OVER the country. Everyone over 40 has a buy to let portfolio and those under 40 are stuck in rented property with few rights. Did you know in the uk if you rent you can be evicted for no reason at all? And if you will not or can not pay bubble prices for property you have to rent, live in poorly maintain…

Did you know in the uk if you rent you can be evicted for no reason at all? That is simply not true. Evicting anyone is a long, drawn-out process, even if they stop paying the rent!

After the Assured Shorthold Tenancy period you can be given 2 months notice at any time. Regardless of what kind of tenant you have been, whether you paid your rent on time, etc etc etc.

I know it has happened to me and many others I have spoken to. What sort of an environment is that in which to lead a settled life? Many many priced out tenants have had to move their kids from school to school as incompetent landlords discover they got their sums wrong and have to sell up.

If you are a 'problem tenant' and stop paying rent there are difficult processes to go through in order to force an eviction. But I am not talking about the far less common case of non payment of rent from a difficult person. I am talking about decent families being forced out of their home as the norm.

That is a disgrace.

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