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Line length in programming

ck.kennt-wayne.de

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Re: Line length in programming

#51

Post by Varcht »

mst wrote: post #41
crayola wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please take the time to review and correct this sentence next time you copy-paste. This is a painful read.

Missing the occasional definite article out is something that seems to be fairly common with second language english speakers. I decided some time ago that it was worthwhile forcing myself to adjust until it wasn't noticeably painful; there are too many people out there I want to communicate with who do it.

Agreed, people all over the world are going out of their way to post in English so we don't have to constantly go to a translator. If you really do not understand what is being said ask for clarification, otherwise just be appreciative.

Re: Line length in programming

#52

Post by viraptor »

mst wrote: post #42
viraptor wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or python if you're already in a function in a function in a class (so 68 chars left). If you also standardised on importing modules, not classes things can get silly. My favourite counter-example to the 80 char limit was a line in openstack which was: return some_loaded_module.fairly_descriptive_but_necessarily_long_name(not_very_long_argument) The way applied to fit it without forced line breaking? fdbnln = some_lo…

In perl I'd just write - return $some_loaded_thing->fairly_descriptive_but_necessarily_long_name( $not_very_long_argument ); Surely python has something approximating an equivalent?

sorry, it was the return itself that was making it too long already. Basically assigning it locally took just exactly the number of characters, return was sticking out by one or two.

Re: Line length in programming

#54

Post by zk00006 »

mooism2 wrote: post #16
nkuttler wrote: post #10

I'm glad we talk about this. Once we have solved this question we can move on to really important stuff, like tabs vs spaces.

Code is read far more than it is written. Therefore code legibility is important. Line length affects code legibility. Therefore line length is important.

Also, we talk about it because it does not need any brain power.

Re: Line length in programming

#55

Post by arocks »

mooism2 wrote: post #12
arocks wrote: post #8

In my opinion the 80 character limit is mostly for better presentability. If the code appears in a blog post or a book, it is better to read and typeset if it is less than 80 characters. Though there are several articles[1] which explain other reasons for this legacy limitation. I would be happy to read code more than 80 characters, if it doesn't have to be artificially cut into multiple lines (the screenshot in the…

IMO, given that most blog templates include copious margins, many don't allow readers to resize the text, and some don't even allow readers to scroll horizontally, 80 characters is far too long for a line of code in a blog post.

Sadly true. In this age of Responsive design, figuring out an optimal line limit for code samples is a tricky task indeed.

Re: Line length in programming

#56

Post by shadowmint »

masklinn wrote: post #46
shadowmint wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? class Engineer(Person): __tablename__ = 'engineers' __mapper_args__ = {'polymorphic_identity': 'engineer'} engineer_id = Column('id', Integer, ForeignKey('people.id'), primary_key=True) primary_language = Column(String(50)) 12345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890 ^^ Line length marker Woops. 2 characters over. Do we really need a line break there? Guess perhaps I shoul…

> Really? Yes, really. > Woops. 2 characters over. Do we really need a line break there? You do what you want. > I don't think 'you can just refactor that to be shorter' is really a solution in all circumstances. You don't think the solution I didn't advocate as a cure-all in the first place is a cure-all? Am I supposed to be surprised at this finding?

Well, you specifically said that if someone had gone beyond the 80 character limit, its probably because they needed to rewrite / reword / subfunctionize something. If you've never had a problem with it, dare I ask, how are you qualified to make that call, given you've never had to face that challenge?

Anyway, that example is straight from the sqlalchemy examples, which is arguably (other than the extremely wordy Zope) most commonly used python orm around.

Wordy database interaction is really common point this sort of thing, and it's hard to refactor/rewrite your way out of it; that's the only real point I'm making.

I personally think strict adherence to line length limits reduces code quality; you've got to use common sense for it.

Re: Line length in programming

#57

Post by collyw »

aleem wrote: post #47
yeukhon wrote: post #11

Here is what I've said about 80 char in the past. "If the argument for expanding to 100 or more is that screen is getting wider, then the benefit of wide screen is the ability to fit multiple terminals in one window. For normal workflow, I'd split my windows into two or terminals, depending on what I am doing, so I don't see any benefit in increasing the limit."

Touche. Multiple monitors and more screen real estate has been proven to increase productivity. It's an easy win. If the lines come out too long too often, it may be a symptom of other problems. if ((browser.OS == 'win') && (browser.userAgent == 'IE')) { is often better written as: isIE = (browser.userAgent == 'IE'); isWindows = (browser.OS == 'win'); if (isIE && isWindows) { It's self-documenting and reads like natu…

Its more code, more variables. I sometimes do this with complex conditions, but for your example I find it counterproductive.

Re: Line length in programming

#58

Post by collyw »

oofoe wrote: post #44
matthewmacleod wrote: post #7

80 chars is a useful rule of thumb, so long as it's tempered by practicality. I've worked on projects where the limit was taken far too literally, which results in code that's harder to read. This is especially true if you're using something verbose (Java, Objective-C) or whitespace-sensitive (Python).

For what it's worth, in my opinion, if you need more than an 80 character line in Python, you're doing it wrong. I currently maintain a large Python codebase where the original authors /needed/ big long lines. Anytime I see one of these big wads of bubble gum, I know I can rewrite it to be simpler, clearer and shorter (I've done it enough now). Fortunately, there are increasingly fewer of them... It's important to re…

I hate the 80 character limit. I find it counterproductive. Its usually faster to find a closing brace on the same line, than scan lines until you find it. Kind of the opposite effect of Python's whitespace. I like to leave my lines longer, as I find if gives my code shape that I can recognise.

Re: Line length in programming

#59

Post by collyw »

NateDad wrote: post #37
Nursie wrote: post #5

80 is too few. The old reason for it (what if you get stuck doing an emergency bugfix using vi on an 80 char display?!?) no longer holds. It's not massively too few, and most lines never get close to the limit anyway, but the odd line of 100-120 thrown in really isn't a problem on a modern display.

That is a straw man. No one actually thinks 80 character displays are the reason to use 80 characters. I think 80-100 is fine. More than 100 and you probably need to refactor the line some, because you probably have too much logic on a single line (or you need to choose names that aren't hugely long).

The beauty of expressive languages like Python is that you can fit a lot of logic into one line with list comprehensions and the likes. When it isn't obvious what it is doing straight away, add a comment.

Re: Line length in programming

#60

Post by collyw »

mst wrote: post #42
viraptor wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or python if you're already in a function in a function in a class (so 68 chars left). If you also standardised on importing modules, not classes things can get silly. My favourite counter-example to the 80 char limit was a line in openstack which was: return some_loaded_module.fairly_descriptive_but_necessarily_long_name(not_very_long_argument) The way applied to fit it without forced line breaking? fdbnln = some_lo…

In perl I'd just write - return $some_loaded_thing->fairly_descriptive_but_necessarily_long_name( $not_very_long_argument ); Surely python has something approximating an equivalent?

Come on, you can get rid of the return statement if it is the last line in a subroutine.
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