Plan To Split California Into Six States Gets OK To Gather Signatures • Hacker News Board

Re: Plan To Split California Into Six States Gets OK To Gather Signatures

#51

Post by protomyth » Thu, Feb 20, 2014, 9:15 PM UTC

dllthomas wrote: post #48

protomyth wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"if democracy is something we value then it's a legitimate consideration" I don't think we've ever valued democracy for its own sake. The founders were much more focused on the States and checks and balances. Democracy had to fit into that framework. [Edit] the proper rights of a British subject became the proper rights of an American citizen and should affect the House directly.

"The founders were much more focused on the States and checks and balances." First, quite obviously, the borders of California were no part of that deliberation. Second, the focuses of the founders don't have to be our own. They had legitimate concerns, of which we should also not lose sight, but that doesn't mean democracy is an illegitimate concern.

I think we ought to go back to listening to the concerns on the proper balance between the people, states, and federal government. We have done a poor job of it in the 1900's and 2000's.

Re: Plan To Split California Into Six States Gets OK To Gather Signatures

#52

Post by dllthomas » Thu, Feb 20, 2014, 9:34 PM UTC

protomyth wrote: post #51

dllthomas wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The founders were much more focused on the States and checks and balances." First, quite obviously, the borders of California were no part of that deliberation. Second, the focuses of the founders don't have to be our own. They had legitimate concerns, of which we should also not lose sight, but that doesn't mean democracy is an illegitimate concern.

I think we ought to go back to listening to the concerns on the proper balance between the people, states, and federal government. We have done a poor job of it in the 1900's and 2000's.

I've no objection to having that discussion, but it's pretty well orthogonal to "should we split CA?"

Re: Plan To Split California Into Six States Gets OK To Gather Signatures

#53

Post by Aloha » Thu, Feb 20, 2014, 10:05 PM UTC

Balance of Payments.

Bay Area and LA Area pay the bulk of the taxes in the state - there is a net transfer of money from the rich counties on the coast to the poorer ones in the north and east, in short, it would take counties that get many services paid for and supplied by the state as a whole, to a level that could possibly resemble a third world country.

California is unmanageable - but its because via the initiative process the voters have boxed everything into a corner.

Re: Plan To Split California Into Six States Gets OK To Gather Signatures

#54

Post by protomyth » Thu, Feb 20, 2014, 10:59 PM UTC

dllthomas wrote: post #50

protomyth wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, I only saw Carlsbad desalination plant and it isn't done. It seems like this article http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Desalination-plants-a-pri... shows none completed.

Hm, Wikipedia says "California has also begun producing a small amount of desalinated water, water that was once sea water, but has been purified." That may need a "citation needed", at least - at a skim I'm not seeing support for it.

Hum, maybe they meant some testing devices, I guess that would be "small amount". Cannot imagine you'd build a whole plant without some miniature tests.