Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Netflix performance on Verizon and Comcast has been dropping for months

arstechnica.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 87 posts

Re: Netflix performance on Verizon and Comcast has been dropping for months

#51

Post by Bill_Dimm »

notlisted wrote: post #46

I have a theory... (based on personal experience). The issue for many is (was) with Apple TV, and not Verizon. I updated my Apple TV in november (shortly after Netflix introduced its SuperHD mode). For a long time after that, Netflix performance was abysmal (dropping down to sub 480p at times, especially during the night time). I complained to netflix and verizon. The latter suggested I try connecting to netflix on a…

Interesting, but what percentage of people have Apple TV? Is it enough to have that much of an impact?

Note: Edited to remove part that was actually addressed in original post.

Re: Netflix performance on Verizon and Comcast has been dropping for months

#52

Post by sp332 »

broseph wrote: post #50
jorgeleo wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last week we try to install comcast business in our church. They would not give us a wireless router unless we accepted her installation of a publics hot spot too. This is against the church policy because it will allow someone watching porn in the sanctuary with no knowledge for us. They would not relent. We end up putting our own wireless router. Speed is ok, but I didn't like that comcast pushed her policies to th…

Couldn't someone just use a cellular network? Or a magazine?

Sure, but at least it's not on the church's own equipment.

Re: Netflix performance on Verizon and Comcast has been dropping for months

#53

Post by sp332 »

wting wrote: post #41
icebraining wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get it, what would happen if you simply hadn't paid the $485?

They sell your debt to collection agencies who harass you until the end of time.

True, but they would also settle for a lot less than $485.

Re: Netflix performance on Verizon and Comcast has been dropping for months

#54

Post by twoodfin »

michaelt wrote: post #44
tzakrajs wrote: post #19

The problem here is that Comcast and Verizon don't want to pay for the upstream bandwidth to the Netflix Open Connect CDN which means that as Netflix increases quality and gains additional subscribers, the time-weighted bitrate (TWBR, the metric they use to compare ISP performance) will continue to plummet. This isn't to say that all Comcast and Verizon customers will feel this pain, some markets have better performa…

How is that consistent with the sudden drop in bandwidth shown in the article's graph http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/netfli... - which is in mbps so if netflix increased their quality, you'd expect it to remain level. Which do you think is more likely, Verizon gained 15% more users after demand was level for months, or Verizon acted in their own self-interest, doing something they have publicly…

How is that consistent with the sudden drop in bandwidth shown in the article's graph ... which is in mbps so if netflix increased their quality, you'd expect it to remain level.

To me, that looks an awful lot like our observed Cogent Verizon/Comcast performance starting around October. It also looks like what happens when a network connection becomes saturated: Performance doesn't drop off linearly, it drops off much faster.

Netflix and Comcast/Verizon don't have enough bandwidth between them to support subscriber demand and Netflix's high bit rate streams at peak hours. There are three obstacles to improving that:

- Somebody's got to pay for bigger interconnect. This is actually the cheapest part, and Netflix would be happy to forgo the interconnect by putting a few boxes loaded with video cache on Comcast's or Verizon's networks.

- Somebody's got to pay for the added bandwidth on Comcast and Verizon's networks to push these video packets to subscribers. Well, duh, Comcast and Verizon should, right? Except now they're at the mercy of Netflix, who can keep loading on subscribers and upping the bit rate until a substantial fraction of home broadband subscribers are trying to pull 10Mbit constantly from 7pm-12am EST. Comcast and Verizon are not thrilled to have to pay for this, especially when it's unclear how they benefit.

- And of course: Netflix is in direct competition with Verizon and Comcast's own "OTA" TV and video on demand services. Every dollar Comcast and Verizon spend to make Netflix more appealing for their subscribers is a dollar they're spending encouraging those same subscribers to cancel or scale back their expensive TV packages.

Re: Netflix performance on Verizon and Comcast has been dropping for months

#55

Post by aroch »

twoodfin wrote: post #48
aroch wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also worth noting that a 10ge flatrate port to Cogent isn't going to cost them that much either -- and then they don't have to deal with any additional hardware, just a crossconnect. But for some reason, paying an additional ~$6K a month so that millions of your subscribers have better service is too high a price to pay

10 gigabit can't come close to covering the growing demand, no? During primetime hours, Netflix represents some substantial fraction of total U.S. internet traffic. If you're Comcast, running 25% of the U.S. broadband market, you're seeing a big chunk of that traffic. What if Netflix decides to double their max streaming rate? Or quadruple it? We can argue again about what it means that Comcast sells you a 20Mbit-max…

10Gbps isn't a lot in terms of total capacity or utilization but even a 100 extra kbps of burstable bandwidth/user can greatly improve the experience. It's the difference between buffering every 30sec and watching with only minor stuttering. Also, bandwidth costs only go down/mbps as you get bigger. $6K/month is what you pay if you're a small business; Comcast or Verizon would get high-level pricing (puts their cost somewhere around ~$3.5K/mn). A 50Gbps commit with another 50Gbps at 95th percentile pricing would would cost them fractions of a cent per customer but would make people much happier.

Now they'll never to it because they'd rather keep that ~$25K.

Re: Netflix performance on Verizon and Comcast has been dropping for months

#56

Post by talmand »

samstave wrote: post #10
dangrossman wrote: post #4

I'm on Verizon FiOS in Pennsylvania, with the standard residential 15/5 service, it's 10:44PM, and Netflix is streaming at a steady 3-4Mb/s. I guess I'm lucky? http://i.imgur.com/akih9HA.png

You're on FIOS and you're getting 3-4MB/s and you're feeling lucky? How sad.

Are we assuming one Netflix stream requires the full pipe?

I'm on FIOS; while the kids are watching Netflix in the living room, the wife is watching Netflix in the bedroom, and I'm playing a multiplayer game with no lag on the desktop. Seems everything works sharing the pipe just fine.

Re: Netflix performance on Verizon and Comcast has been dropping for months

#57

Post by d23 »

jorgeleo wrote: post #38
CamperBob2 wrote: post #7

Hint: never use Comcast for residential service. Sign up for business service, even if you're just one person in an apartment. You get better support, less BS, and (likely) improved immunity to copyright-trolling law firms. They will still route about 10% of your packets via the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter, of course, but that's just the nature of the beast.

Last week we try to install comcast business in our church. They would not give us a wireless router unless we accepted her installation of a publics hot spot too. This is against the church policy because it will allow someone watching porn in the sanctuary with no knowledge for us. They would not relent. We end up putting our own wireless router. Speed is ok, but I didn't like that comcast pushed her policies to th…

> This is against the church policy because it will allow someone watching porn in the sanctuary with no knowledge for us.

Sounds like a feature.

Re: Netflix performance on Verizon and Comcast has been dropping for months

#58

Post by dllthomas »

sp332 wrote: post #52
broseph wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't someone just use a cellular network? Or a magazine?

Sure, but at least it's not on the church's own equipment.

It sounds like it'd be mostly on Comcast's equipment, in this case...

Re: Netflix performance on Verizon and Comcast has been dropping for months

#59

Post by gaoshan »

sp332 wrote: post #52
broseph wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't someone just use a cellular network? Or a magazine?

Sure, but at least it's not on the church's own equipment.

What if they used the church bathroom? Maybe consider getting rid of those or at least installing cameras in them so you can be sure no one is doing anything unholy. Hmm, actually then who could view the footage to monitor things? I suppose you could only permit someone that was totally trustworthy, like the pastor? But what if he/she secretly enjoyed that? Maybe have a two person team view all bathroom footage? Make sure they pray first (and maybe put a camera on them, just in case. Can't be too safe).

Re: Netflix performance on Verizon and Comcast has been dropping for months

#60

Post by untog »

gaoshan wrote: post #59
sp332 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but at least it's not on the church's own equipment.

What if they used the church bathroom? Maybe consider getting rid of those or at least installing cameras in them so you can be sure no one is doing anything unholy. Hmm, actually then who could view the footage to monitor things? I suppose you could only permit someone that was totally trustworthy, like the pastor? But what if he/she secretly enjoyed that? Maybe have a two person team view all bathroom footage? Make…

You're missing the point. If someone brings the internet with them into the church and does X, the church is not involved. If someone comes to the church, connects to their internet connection and does X, the church enabled it.
Post reply on HN