Apple Claims 91% of $1,000+ PC Market Revenue in June • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Claims 91% of $1,000+ PC Market Revenue in June

#51

Post by jimbokun » Thu, Jul 23, 2009, 8:03 PM UTC

josefresco wrote: post #22

ptomato wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have been saying for years that Apple needs to come out with lower end products or they'll die. Their steadily increasing profits (even through the recession) and massive cash reserves say otherwise.

There's a big difference between being successful and being change-the-world successful. I'm sure Apple would love a piece of the latter but given their business model it probably won't happen. I can't imagine Jobs is happy about being just being a billionaire when there are guys like Gates who dwarf his wealth and success (and therefore have the cash to actually saves many more lives and alter world history)

Cringely has an interesting take on the relationship between Gates and Jobs and how they perceive each other.

"In Steve's mind, he has the best of everything. Apple software is cooler than Windows will ever be. Palo Alto, where Jobs lives, is trendier than Seattle. Even Jobs' plane, a Gulfstream V, is cooler than Gates' Challenger 604. It goes on and on. Gates has never even considered this latter point, but I'll guarantee you that Jobs has, and he revels in it."

http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/2002/pulpit_20020110_0007...

So, no, it is not clear at all that Steve believes that Gates is more "successful" than he is. Furthermore, it is no longer insane to imagine that, depending on how long Jobs health holds out, he could presiding over Apple one day with a higher market cap than Microsoft (consider how Apple surpassed Dell in market cap a few years back).

Re: Apple Claims 91% of $1,000+ PC Market Revenue in June

#52

Post by potatolicious » Thu, Jul 23, 2009, 8:16 PM UTC

ljlolel wrote: post #3

This is not necessarily a good thing. Apple has largely $1000+ computers. Them taking 91% (and having single-digit overall market share) means that consumers increasingly prefer small portable cheap low-power computers (netbooks and similar), while the high-end market disappears. As an analogy, it would be like Cray boasting 20 years ago that they owned 90% of the $10,000+ computer market. Apple needs to innovate on…

I disagree. Netbooks are a fad that will not last over a few years. For one thing, the margins on netbooks are even slimmer than the cheapo laptops Dell was making before the "netbook revolution", and manufacturers are getting murdered left and right by this.

It's the Wal-Mart effect - you flood a market suddenly with cheap, shoddy product and people will jump for it, but it's not sustainable as your vendors and suppliers start dying off.

Profit margins are disappearing for the likes of Asus, Dell, and HP, and they're skating on thinner ice than ever before. Would you rather be selling $300 computers at a $5 profit each, or $1200 computers at a $100 profit each?

People got on Sony's back early on when they claimed that the introduction of a netbook will do nothing but start a "race to the bottom". They were attacked for being out of touch with reality and trying to peddle overpriced ultra-portable notebooks. But they were right.

Re: Apple Claims 91% of $1,000+ PC Market Revenue in June

#53

Post by potatolicious » Thu, Jul 23, 2009, 8:23 PM UTC

tdoggette wrote: post #5

zimbabwe wrote: post #2

I'm astounded at how recession-proof Apple has made itself seem. I was hoping they'd survive without too many bruises, but it seems as if the recession is boosting their sales, if anything.

They're a luxury good and a status symbol-- the people that were willing to pay a premium for one pre-recession by and large can still afford to. It's a triumph of their marketing direction (backed up by products of quality, so I hear).

Apple also happens to be the only major manufacturer still willing to treat customers with some measure of respect. I've owned a Toshiba before, and have dealt with Dell also with regards to warranty service; they are terrible. Long wait times (upwards of three hours!), clueless reps, and an iron-clad resistance to making any repairs whatsoever.

Dell eventually acquiesces if you press them. Toshiba never did fix the defective laptop they sold me.

Now Apple. I bought a MacBook Pro some time back in '06. It bit the dust this past Christmas (Dec '08), and I called Apple up; the below is what happened, embellishment-free:

- Waited less than 2 minutes for the first representative to answer. I told her about the problem, she called up my file and noticed I had done previous repairs for the laptop, and immediately offered a full replacement (as opposed to a repair attempt).

- She transferred me to a level-2 tech, I was on hold for less than 2 minutes again, and when the L2 tech got on the line the first representative relayed all the relevant information to him, in my presence, and asked me to confirm that this is correct.

- They never once argued about the validity of any of my claims, nor did they ask for proof that my motherboard was truly shot.

- I told them that I needed to do work over the holiday break (this was Dec. 20th-ish), and asked them to expedite the process. I had my new computer by Christmas eve. - They upgraded me to a unibody MacBook Pro for free, without me asking for one.

Try getting THAT kind of service from any other PC manufacturer on the market today.

Re: Apple Claims 91% of $1,000+ PC Market Revenue in June

#54

Post by ptomato » Thu, Jul 23, 2009, 8:43 PM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #38

ptomato wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have been saying for years that Apple needs to come out with lower end products or they'll die. Their steadily increasing profits (even through the recession) and massive cash reserves say otherwise.

True, but (1) we had many years of quite good economic growth until 2008 and (2) their big $$$ are coming from the iPhone right now - wasn't there a post yesterday observing that it's outselling the Mac? So one could argue that the iPhone is their lower-end product line: Mac design philosophy that goes in your pocket.

Except that as far as mobile phones go, the iPhone isn't particularly low-end pricewise.

Re: Apple Claims 91% of $1,000+ PC Market Revenue in June

#55

Post by gamble » Thu, Jul 23, 2009, 8:44 PM UTC

pavlov wrote: post #11

pchristensen wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, this is like saying Mercedes needs to get into the sub-$40K market. Maybe they do, maybe not. I think Mercedes and Apple would rather own the top and have the market rise to them.

Mercedes is quite active at the lowest end of the market: they produce cute microcars under the Smart brand. (I guess Smarts might not be available in the US at all, considering Americans' excess-oriented taste in automobiles.)

Smart has been a huge money pit for Daimler. They lost billions, cancelled most of their unreleased vehicles, and had to be absorbed back into Daimler.

Re: Apple Claims 91% of $1,000+ PC Market Revenue in June

#56

Post by gamble » Thu, Jul 23, 2009, 8:47 PM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #47

jemmons wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been using Logic since the Atari days, and I certainly don't mean to belittle the contributions of eMagic! I'm less familiar with the linage of Final Cut, but I'm sure whoever developed that before Apple did fantastic work. But, though it's become a cliche in this context, I think what makes these products world-changing is Apple's vision. [EDIT: actually, now that I think about it, it's not their vision. It's t…

Well, the cliff notes version: Adobe were the breakthrough company to develop video editing on Mac, with what is now Premiere. Final Cut was a spinoff of that when the developer left for Macromedia, which was in turn split between Apple and Adobe (FC & Flash, respectively): http://steveblank.com/2009/05/11/supermac-war-story-x-the-vi... Now you're right about Apple's price cutting, and it's more obvious how this drov…

Wasn't Premiere actually developed by SuperMac and purchased by Adobe?

Re: Apple Claims 91% of $1,000+ PC Market Revenue in June

#57

Post by icefox » Thu, Jul 23, 2009, 9:02 PM UTC

vaksel wrote: post #16

pavlov wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mercedes is quite active at the lowest end of the market: they produce cute microcars under the Smart brand. (I guess Smarts might not be available in the US at all, considering Americans' excess-oriented taste in automobiles.)

smarts are around, but they are not that popular. I think they've been out for two or even three years here, but I haven't seen one yet

Seen a few, even thought about getting one, but for 2K more I got a used 3 year old car that has a bigger trunk, back seats, much better gear box (manual 6-speed) and is overall much nicer.

Re: Apple Claims 91% of $1,000+ PC Market Revenue in June

#58

Post by kpanghmc » Thu, Jul 23, 2009, 9:12 PM UTC

People who want to purchase Macs don't have a choice but to spend over $1,000. People who are willing to purchase PCs have that choice, and most elect to spend less. Is this stat really something to be proud of? It has more to do with the fact that Apple doesn't sell computers cheaper than $1,000 than anything.

Re: Apple Claims 91% of $1,000+ PC Market Revenue in June

#59

Post by newacc » Thu, Jul 23, 2009, 9:32 PM UTC

ljlolel wrote: post #3

This is not necessarily a good thing. Apple has largely $1000+ computers. Them taking 91% (and having single-digit overall market share) means that consumers increasingly prefer small portable cheap low-power computers (netbooks and similar), while the high-end market disappears. As an analogy, it would be like Cray boasting 20 years ago that they owned 90% of the $10,000+ computer market. Apple needs to innovate on…

i agree with you that "Apple needs to innovate on the low end, or die" because cloud computing and browser OS are going to be a game changer - if every task is done on the net and if the browser is the OS then how would one differentiate a PC from MAC??? all you need is a hardware with a browser OS that is slick and speedy, while all the apps that resides on the net will have same look and feel on all the browsers doesn't matter what hardware you're using!

Re: Apple Claims 91% of $1,000+ PC Market Revenue in June

#60

Post by thwarted » Thu, Jul 23, 2009, 11:32 PM UTC

pchristensen wrote: post #44

pavlov wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mercedes is quite active at the lowest end of the market: they produce cute microcars under the Smart brand. (I guess Smarts might not be available in the US at all, considering Americans' excess-oriented taste in automobiles.)

OK, fine. Apple makes the iPhone, the SmartCar of computers.

The iPhone may be the SmartCar of computers, but it's the Mercedes of phones. While we'd all like the believe that that highly capable phones are really full fledged computers, that isn't yet the case and Apple doesn't even strongly market it as such (there's no "replace your desktop computer with an iPhone" marketing).