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HP brings Windows 7 back 'due to popular demand' as buyers shun Windows 8

theinquirer.net

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Re: HP brings Windows 7 back 'due to popular demand' as buyers shun Windows 8

#51

Post by [deleted] »

WiseWeasel wrote: post #36
theg2 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use Win8 daily and have no issue using a mouse or my fingers, actually the mouse is far more accurate and faster so I fail to understand your statement.

Swipe gestures are a pain with a mouse, because you need to move the mouse to the right spot, click, drag in the opposite direction and then release, requiring a non-trivial amount of effort; and it just feels wrong when you're expected to do so regularly because you know there has to be a better way (like the way it used to work). Decades of desktop UI design focused on "discoverability" also mean that an unindicate…

[deleted]

Re: HP brings Windows 7 back 'due to popular demand' as buyers shun Windows 8

#52

Post by stusmall »

iends wrote: post #45
dangrossman wrote: post #40

The changes between Windows 7 and 8 always seemed terribly minor to me -- a few control panels and settings shifted around as they do every OS update, the start menu became larger and looks a bit different but functions essentially the same (right down to preserving your Program Files hierarchy from Win95 if you scroll down from the tiles screen), but nothing major in the big scheme of things. If Microsoft hadn't mad…

Metro apps that are full screen are a terrible idea. I hate running skype and it taking up an entire monitor (yes, I know about skype desktop, and use it now, but it's not the default). I hate the PDF reader that is always full screen and difficult to close (alt-f4 is the only way?). Full screen applications don't work on a desktop where multitasking is the norm.

I really only had two complaints about Windows 8. I couldn't find a way to have two PDFs open and on the screen with that default reader and I had a lot of trouble find out how to shut the machine down. Once I found ctrl+c if fixed the power down problem and to be honest I'm just glad they are finally shipping a PDF reader by default. All and all its not bad for a Microsoft product and I don't completely get the hate.

(By the way, ALT+F4 is the way I close metro apps too but here is another way http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/how-close-app)

Re: HP brings Windows 7 back 'due to popular demand' as buyers shun Windows 8

#53

Post by gooble_flop »

Woben wrote: post #43
dangrossman wrote: post #40

The changes between Windows 7 and 8 always seemed terribly minor to me -- a few control panels and settings shifted around as they do every OS update, the start menu became larger and looks a bit different but functions essentially the same (right down to preserving your Program Files hierarchy from Win95 if you scroll down from the tiles screen), but nothing major in the big scheme of things. If Microsoft hadn't mad…

No - The problem lies in the fact they tried to create a "One size fits all" solution and failed at creating a usable desktop OS. Windows 8 is fine on a phone, it's the desktop that's the problem. (before anyone jumps down my throat, yes you can mod Windows 8 so it's more usable in a desktop environment but that's not the point)

I use Windows 8.1 on a desktop and it's fine even without mods.

I can see how Windows 8 might have been a problem for some people, but for the most part 8.1 is 7 with a fullscreen start menu.

Re: HP brings Windows 7 back 'due to popular demand' as buyers shun Windows 8

#54

Post by noveltyaccount »

TrainedMonkey wrote: post #2

I really do not understand why we must have one size fits all operating system in the first place. Some things work better for mobile (metro, ios, android), and some work better for desktop/laptop Windows, OS X, Linux. Why must we try to make them the same? I would argue a set of well defined junction points like Apple did with airplay in order to share content between mobile and desktop segments is a way more elegan…

I have an 8" Windows 8.1 device running an Intel Atom CPU. I love it, it's probably my favourite PC to date.

I can be at the office editing a document on my keyboard/mouse laptop, save it to skydrive, and it's already there on my 8" for review later. Quick edits on the go are a breeze, since I have the identical MS Office software running in both machines.

I can review documentation in a git repository by actually installing git for Windows and cloning the repository. Now I'm not saying I'm going to actually code on an 8" Atom device, far from it. But the fact that I can participate, using the exact same tooling in the exact same manner, as is fitting for the device, is brilliant.

The only difference is I use 90% Metro Apps on the 8", and 90% desktop apps on the laptop. It's the plumbing that's one size fits all, and once in a while you cross the boundaries of the UI and it works well enough. You're not giving anything up. You have it all.

One size fits all is great, I'm a fan.

Re: HP brings Windows 7 back 'due to popular demand' as buyers shun Windows 8

#55

Post by Encosia »

The Windows 8 (especially post-8.1) pushback baffles me. If you put any effort at all into learning how to use it effectively, the acclimation period is definitely shorter than Win95 or WinXP was. I use it on a desktop machine with two 30" displays and only mouse/keyboard inputs (i.e. no touch). You certainly couldn't pay me $150 to go back to Win7 at this point.

I even find that I use Metro apps on my desktop fairly often. I have the live tiles for a few key apps like Mail, Calendar, Weather, Google Voice, and Twitter arranged as a dashboard of key notifications that I care about and flip over from the desktop more often than I thought I would.

It's also nice how Metro apps can raise notification toast on the desktop now in 8.1 (and desktop apps like Outlook can also tie into that same system, similar to Growl but built-in). Since I'm on the desktop 95% of the time, that definitely helps bridge the gap between Metro and desktop. I can get a lightweight notification when I get an @mention on Twitter, for example, without leaving TweetDeck running all the time.

On my laptop with touch and on my Surface, Win8.1 is far and away better than Win7 could have possibly been. The Metro side of things is great there - especially since both have HiDPI displays and Metro apps .

Surprisingly, I still haven't installed Outlook on the laptop because the 8.1 update to the Metro Mail app makes it good enough for my relatively light email use while mobile. Since all of the settings sync across machines automatically, the Mail app was already configured with the six accounts I use regularly as soon as I logged into it, so it was a no-brainer compared to installing Outlook or opening six web apps all the time.

Re: HP brings Windows 7 back 'due to popular demand' as buyers shun Windows 8

#56

Post by free652 »

gooble_flop wrote: post #53
Woben wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No - The problem lies in the fact they tried to create a "One size fits all" solution and failed at creating a usable desktop OS. Windows 8 is fine on a phone, it's the desktop that's the problem. (before anyone jumps down my throat, yes you can mod Windows 8 so it's more usable in a desktop environment but that's not the point)

I use Windows 8.1 on a desktop and it's fine even without mods. I can see how Windows 8 might have been a problem for some people, but for the most part 8.1 is 7 with a fullscreen start menu.

>for the most part 8.1 is 7 with a fullscreen start menu.

And missing the non-full screen start menu. I hate going back to metro interface to launch an app, now I have to create shortcuts on the desktop. I used to simply type an app name in windows 7's launcher.

Re: HP brings Windows 7 back 'due to popular demand' as buyers shun Windows 8

#57

Post by honestcoyote »

adamors wrote: post #4

Windows 8 is noticeably faster, has nice improvements all around and it's probably the first Windows that looks aesthetic. People are afraid of change, simple as that.

"People are afraid of change, simple as that."

There's one good thing about Windows 8: anyone who uses this phrase is now known to have absolutely no argument worthy of discussion.

People rejected an interface which offered them nothing new on their existing hardware and was going to force them to relearn their current daily tasks.

People will gladly accept change if there's a clear benefit. They'll often accept change even if the only benefit is aesthetic. However, there's no clear benefit to Windows 8 apparent to most end users and the aesthetic changes were not enough.

It's a failure of Microsoft in the marketplace, not a moral or intellectual failing of Microsoft's users.

Re: HP brings Windows 7 back 'due to popular demand' as buyers shun Windows 8

#58

Post by dangrossman »

free652 wrote: post #56
gooble_flop wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use Windows 8.1 on a desktop and it's fine even without mods. I can see how Windows 8 might have been a problem for some people, but for the most part 8.1 is 7 with a fullscreen start menu.

>for the most part 8.1 is 7 with a fullscreen start menu. And missing the non-full screen start menu. I hate going back to metro interface to launch an app, now I have to create shortcuts on the desktop. I used to simply type an app name in windows 7's launcher.

> I used to simply type an app name in windows 7's launcher

Why don't you still do that? That global search has only gotten smarter, it's definitely not been removed. You press the windows key, type 3 letters, hit enter and your app is running before your eyes even register the start screen having briefly appeared and gone. I couldn't imagine going back to desktop shortcuts -- I haven't had to move my hands off the keyboard to launch a program in 7 years.

Re: HP brings Windows 7 back 'due to popular demand' as buyers shun Windows 8

#59

Post by userbinator »

robertfw wrote: post #9
adamors wrote: post #4

Windows 8 is noticeably faster, has nice improvements all around and it's probably the first Windows that looks aesthetic. People are afraid of change, simple as that.

Windows 8 is the most unusable collection of software I have ever had the misfortune of fighting. It is the worst experience I have ever had with an operating system, coming from experience with dos, windows 3.1-95-xp-vista-7, ubuntu, and arch. The built in apps feel like MVPs. The interactions are unintuitive, and many things that should "just work" smack you in the face time and time again. the whole thing feels li…

I very recently had to help someone who was using a new Win8 laptop, and it's amazing how much the little things matter - like the title bar's text being centred. I had several notepads open and it was difficult to see which one was which file, because with the text at the edge I would usually leave that edge of the window sticking out beneath the others, but with the title centred I can't see the filename from either side. That seriously annoyed me.

Re: HP brings Windows 7 back 'due to popular demand' as buyers shun Windows 8

#60

Post by baby »

adamors wrote: post #4

Windows 8 is noticeably faster, has nice improvements all around and it's probably the first Windows that looks aesthetic. People are afraid of change, simple as that.

> People are afraid of change, simple as that.

Some yeah. But it's a bit too easy to say that just because most people don't like the OS you like.

It's pretty known that you have to skip a version of Windows every other version and it seems like Microsoft is not changing the pattern right now. I love windows 7 but 8 is just unusable on desktop for me, I love windows 8 for phones though.

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