To the Girls of HackerNews: I am a Female Founder who Codes • Hacker News Board

Re: To the Girls of HackerNews: I am a Female Founder who Codes

#51

Post by romanovcode » Mon, Jan 20, 2014, 8:50 AM UTC

animus9 wrote: post #44

olefoo wrote: post #3

There is nothing about programming computers that is gender specific; in fact it seems kind of weird and awkward that we have to discuss this at all. Given that so many of the foundational figures of the field ( Ada Lovelace, Grace Hopper, etc. ) were female, the fact that programming and IT became an almost entirely male-dominated profession is suspicious, and should make us question the attitudes and social constru…

The only thing suspicious is the propaganda machine which is creating this never ending list of gender-tech articles and their associated divisionist jargon. Social construct theory is dead. Girls who have a genuine interest in technology couldn't care less about the sex of their coworkers (because if they did then they would be sexists).

Posts like these get high views. I'd say it's more of a link-bait thing.

Re: To the Girls of HackerNews: I am a Female Founder who Codes

#52

Post by _bfhp » Mon, Jan 20, 2014, 8:51 AM UTC

notastartup wrote: post #7

To the Boys of HackerNews: I am a Male Founder who Codes but no one cares because there's too many of us and that makes us not at all interesting. Have women have ever been robbed of being able to code like voting? Why does it receive so much attention? What adversity did they need to overcome to be where they are? Is it physical like someone who suffers from carpal tunnel syndrome or glaucoma overcoming their disabi…

Gender isn't "just a binary label," it's a system of normalized roles, and girls and women, historically and now, were/are steered to roles that involve carework, "womenly" professions, etc.

In this system, women who find interest in coding, despite all the pressures to just stick to their role, need all the role models they can get. Could you tell me, did you read the article before making this comment?

Re: To the Girls of HackerNews: I am a Female Founder who Codes

#53

Post by obstacle1 » Mon, Jan 20, 2014, 8:51 AM UTC

primitivesuave wrote: post #31

flebron wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will do that as soon as you explain how treating female coders as if they were freaks, segregating them in their own class, decreases the problem of integration of more female coders in tech. Perhaps the issue of "feeling alien to the community" would be improved by, you know, not alienating females from the community, with sexist behavior such as this.

I would never consider a female coder to be any different from a male one. I am merely giving anecdotal evidence that female students of the 11 - 17 age group learn significantly better when they are amongst their peers. My decision to make a few of our classes into girls-only ones was to allow the girls who felt uncomfortable in a male-dominated setting to still have an opportunity to learn in a setting they found c…

>I would never consider a female coder to be any different from a male one

You literally segregated males from females in your coding class. That is considering them to be different.

>female students of the 11 - 17 age group learn significantly better when they are amongst their peers.

So male students aren't peers of female students? Really?

I'm pretty sure you're not being purposefully malicious, but jeeze... Your philosophy is kinda broken, you don't really seem to realize the (incredibly sexist) assumptions you're making, and that's going to lead to reinforcing a gender divide, not solving any problems.

Re: To the Girls of HackerNews: I am a Female Founder who Codes

#54

Post by smtddr » Mon, Jan 20, 2014, 8:51 AM UTC

greenyoda wrote: post #29

smtddr wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You sound like you don't believe there is any significant gender bias or sexism in the tech field. Is that what you think?

I'm skeptical that drawing special attention to female founders who are coders will reduce gender-biased behaviors. The most effective way of combating gender bias is for the people who run companies to stop tolerating that kind of behavior in their employees. Do you have an employee who makes disparaging remarks to another employee based on their sex? Then tell them to cut it out, and if they don't, fire them. Do yo…

I think the problem should be tackled from both sides.

The people who already make up the tech field, mostly men, should absolutely behave in a professional(non-frat-boy) manner as you say.

_AND_ everyone already in the tech field should let girls & women outside of the field know that they are welcome & fully capable of entering the tech field by showing more role-models and more blogs like this one.

Re: To the Girls of HackerNews: I am a Female Founder who Codes

#55

Post by _bfhp » Mon, Jan 20, 2014, 8:52 AM UTC

animus9 wrote: post #44

olefoo wrote: post #3

There is nothing about programming computers that is gender specific; in fact it seems kind of weird and awkward that we have to discuss this at all. Given that so many of the foundational figures of the field ( Ada Lovelace, Grace Hopper, etc. ) were female, the fact that programming and IT became an almost entirely male-dominated profession is suspicious, and should make us question the attitudes and social constru…

The only thing suspicious is the propaganda machine which is creating this never ending list of gender-tech articles and their associated divisionist jargon. Social construct theory is dead. Girls who have a genuine interest in technology couldn't care less about the sex of their coworkers (because if they did then they would be sexists).

"Social construct theory is dead"

Are you serious? When did it "die", again?

Re: To the Girls of HackerNews: I am a Female Founder who Codes

#56

Post by watwut » Mon, Jan 20, 2014, 8:52 AM UTC

primitivesuave wrote: post #9

I run a private education organization that teaches kids how to code at a physical facility, and we get a gender breakup of male and female students that is similar to that of the industry (around 80 - 20). Because of the overwhelming male presence, it is difficult to make a comfortable learning environment for the female students, who may often feel uncomfortable, at odds with, or ostracized by pseudo-masculine effo…

Isn't there a way how to teach those adolescent males to behave like humans? If their behavior is that bad that it makes uncomfortable learning environment for other students, then it needs to be addressed.

I'm woman and my experience is that most adolescent males are not apes and are able to act like human. Separating them by gender is accepting bad behavior as norm when it actually is not a norm. Young polite males are often off putted by pseudo-masculinity too, but you just told those that they have to suck it up.

The stereotype of adolescent male being half ape is as a accurate as the stereotype of woman being way too much emotional. Despite stereotypes, most young males are ok people and most young females are able to reason rationally.

Re: To the Girls of HackerNews: I am a Female Founder who Codes

#57

Post by animus9 » Mon, Jan 20, 2014, 8:52 AM UTC

_bfhp wrote: post #34

olefoo wrote: post #3

There is nothing about programming computers that is gender specific; in fact it seems kind of weird and awkward that we have to discuss this at all. Given that so many of the foundational figures of the field ( Ada Lovelace, Grace Hopper, etc. ) were female, the fact that programming and IT became an almost entirely male-dominated profession is suspicious, and should make us question the attitudes and social constru…

What's weird is that people assume that this has to do with programming specifically, instead of the larger workings of gender as a social construction and hierarchy (laid upon the material reality of sex dimorphism). Discussing gender isn't weird, men (and many women) just aren't very literate about the thing.

Actually most men who program are just interested in it. Same with the ladies. Discussing gender is irrelevant to this forum. This new age jargon will have a short shelf life once the truth gets out. Those who sow seeds of discord will soon have to reap their crops.

Re: To the Girls of HackerNews: I am a Female Founder who Codes

#58

Post by romanovcode » Mon, Jan 20, 2014, 8:53 AM UTC

jmnicolas wrote: post #17

notastartup wrote: post #7

To the Boys of HackerNews: I am a Male Founder who Codes but no one cares because there's too many of us and that makes us not at all interesting. Have women have ever been robbed of being able to code like voting? Why does it receive so much attention? What adversity did they need to overcome to be where they are? Is it physical like someone who suffers from carpal tunnel syndrome or glaucoma overcoming their disabi…

Yes exactly. I'm a bit fed up with people advocating more women in . As far as I can tell these same people don't complain that teachers and nurses jobs are mainly occupied by women. Everybody seem to agree that a nursing job is not attractive for most men. Maybe the reason that women are few in tech is because these professions are not attractive to them.

Never in my life I've seen an article named I'm teacher and I'm a male!; Life as a male nurse; etc..

I think these articles are mainly link-bait for pageviews, nothing more.

Re: To the Girls of HackerNews: I am a Female Founder who Codes

#59

Post by chongli » Mon, Jan 20, 2014, 8:54 AM UTC

olefoo wrote: post #3

There is nothing about programming computers that is gender specific; in fact it seems kind of weird and awkward that we have to discuss this at all. Given that so many of the foundational figures of the field ( Ada Lovelace, Grace Hopper, etc. ) were female, the fact that programming and IT became an almost entirely male-dominated profession is suspicious, and should make us question the attitudes and social constru…

( Ada Lovelace, Grace Hopper, etc. )

I think the problem is that we always name these two. Ada Lovelace died 161 years ago. Is she really all that relevant a role model for girls today?

Re: To the Girls of HackerNews: I am a Female Founder who Codes

#60

Post by forgotmycreds » Mon, Jan 20, 2014, 8:54 AM UTC

primitivesuave wrote: post #31

flebron wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will do that as soon as you explain how treating female coders as if they were freaks, segregating them in their own class, decreases the problem of integration of more female coders in tech. Perhaps the issue of "feeling alien to the community" would be improved by, you know, not alienating females from the community, with sexist behavior such as this.

I would never consider a female coder to be any different from a male one. I am merely giving anecdotal evidence that female students of the 11 - 17 age group learn significantly better when they are amongst their peers. My decision to make a few of our classes into girls-only ones was to allow the girls who felt uncomfortable in a male-dominated setting to still have an opportunity to learn in a setting they found c…

You make it sound like there were boys running around them in circles every class all class long. But its a good discussion, hope one of you comes with a less dramatic solution.