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NSA collects millions of text messages daily in 'untargeted' global sweep

theguardian.com

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Re: NSA collects millions of text messages daily in 'untargeted' global sweep

#51

Post by mortov »

pvnick wrote: post #20

"Communications from US phone numbers, the documents suggest, were removed (or “minimized”) from the database – but those of other countries, including the UK, were retained." I'm interested in knowing the specifics on this. US data goes into a database and is then proactively removed? Minimization procedures [1] allow the nsa to keep US data up to 5 years to determine where it's coming from. It's also kept if "they…

I would assume much longer. I have a recollection [i.e. I cannot build a google query to find a reference right now] of some poor schmuck working with a tribute band who asked him to send a text message of the lyrics to "Machine Gun" (a Jimi Hendrixs song). Something along the lines of 'please send us machine gun'. He promptly replied with the words and a few hours later was on the wrong end of an armed response team storming his house asking where the machine gun was.

At the time the only explanation he could think of was his messages were being intercepted but this was denied and the official explanation was he had supposedly sent the reply text to the wrong person who called the police. His phone logs showed he sent the reply text to the correct number but the police just dismissed this with no explanation.

Now we have a more plausable explanation. This has apparently been going on for a long time.

[Edit, for clarity, this was in the UK.]

Re: NSA collects millions of text messages daily in 'untargeted' global sweep

#52

Post by csandreasen »

pvnick wrote: post #20

"Communications from US phone numbers, the documents suggest, were removed (or “minimized”) from the database – but those of other countries, including the UK, were retained." I'm interested in knowing the specifics on this. US data goes into a database and is then proactively removed? Minimization procedures [1] allow the nsa to keep US data up to 5 years to determine where it's coming from. It's also kept if "they…

Probably not. The article says 200 million a day (in 2011), which seems like a huge amount, but the volume of text messages in the US alone was 2.3 trillion in 2011 [1] (I'm using US numbers since I don't know where you're from). If you operate under the assumption that they're only collecting Americans' text messages, that means they would be collecting 3% of text messages if I did my math correctly. I'm assuming the global text messaging numbers are significantly higher.

[1] http://www.marketingcharts.com/wp/topics/wireless/us-text-me...

[EDIT: corrected my math - thank you kuusisto]

Re: NSA collects millions of text messages daily in 'untargeted' global sweep

#53

Post by kuusisto »

csandreasen wrote: post #52
pvnick wrote: post #20

"Communications from US phone numbers, the documents suggest, were removed (or “minimized”) from the database – but those of other countries, including the UK, were retained." I'm interested in knowing the specifics on this. US data goes into a database and is then proactively removed? Minimization procedures [1] allow the nsa to keep US data up to 5 years to determine where it's coming from. It's also kept if "they…

Probably not. The article says 200 million a day (in 2011), which seems like a huge amount, but the volume of text messages in the US alone was 2.3 trillion in 2011 [1] (I'm using US numbers since I don't know where you're from). If you operate under the assumption that they're only collecting Americans' text messages, that means they would be collecting 3% of text messages if I did my math correctly. I'm assuming th…

I think you mean 3% instead of .03%. Still.

Re: NSA collects millions of text messages daily in 'untargeted' global sweep

#54

Post by pilooch »

moxie wrote: post #49

I help develop TextSecure, an Android app which allows users encrypt their text messages: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.thoughtcri... It's fully open source: https://github.com/whispersystems/textsecure You can also sign up to be notified when it's released for iOS: https://whispersystems.org/blog/iphone-rsn/

I love textsecure. My problems is twofold: I don't know in advance who is using it from my contacts, and I know for sure none of my non geek relations is using it, not even for business stuff, which could make sense. And so as much as I like it (thanks!!!) I am not convinced this is the solution. Am I wrong ?

Re: NSA collects millions of text messages daily in 'untargeted' global sweep

#55

Post by VexXtreme »

I still don't understand something. If they are intercepting text messages globally, how do they do that if two people are texting each other in within the borders of their own country using their national carrier? Their texts never leave the country. Has the NSA somehow compromised or coerced various carriers around the world to provide them with this data?

Re: NSA collects millions of text messages daily in 'untargeted' global sweep

#56

Post by berberous »

mortov wrote: post #51
pvnick wrote: post #20

"Communications from US phone numbers, the documents suggest, were removed (or “minimized”) from the database – but those of other countries, including the UK, were retained." I'm interested in knowing the specifics on this. US data goes into a database and is then proactively removed? Minimization procedures [1] allow the nsa to keep US data up to 5 years to determine where it's coming from. It's also kept if "they…

I would assume much longer. I have a recollection [i.e. I cannot build a google query to find a reference right now] of some poor schmuck working with a tribute band who asked him to send a text message of the lyrics to "Machine Gun" (a Jimi Hendrixs song). Something along the lines of 'please send us machine gun'. He promptly replied with the words and a few hours later was on the wrong end of an armed response team…

Found it (first result for "machine gun lyrics mistaken sms police"): http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/06/03/text_punk/

"Devine, who plays in a Clash tribute band in his spare time, had sent a message containing lyrics from The Clash's Tommy Gun to his lead singer who had forgotten the words to the song.

According to The Sun, the message read:

    "How about this for Tommy Gun? OK - SO LET'S AGREE ABOUT THE PRICE AND MAKE IT ONE JET AIRLINER AND TEN PRISONERS"
The arrest has prompted speculation about how the message was intercepted. Police maintain that Devine's message went astray. They say he actually sent it to a woman in Bristol by mistake and it was she who alerted police to the content.

However, The Sun also quotes Chris Dobson, a terrorism expert, as saying that the interception clearly shows that GCHQ is monitoring all vocal and textual mobile phone traffic."

Re: NSA collects millions of text messages daily in 'untargeted' global sweep

#57

Post by samstave »

maqr wrote: post #47
sinak wrote: post #44

This is very clearly collection of the contents of messages, and not simply metadata. The fact that US messages may later be "minimized" from the database is vaguely helpful, but not much of a reassurance. That data should never be collected in the first place, and bulk collection of international data is also an unnecessary practice. If this helps motivate you, we need all the help we can get with https://thedaywefi…

I'm curious why they labeled it "METACONTENT: Message Content". So it's content about the content's content?

I'm picturing where they summarize or rpg raze the content of a message and then label this rephrasing as "metadata" so as to deny they don't have the actual content.

As if they were to compress the content then claim they do the the original content because it has been compressed.

I wouldn't put such lunacy past them.

Fuck the NSA.

Re: NSA collects millions of text messages daily in 'untargeted' global sweep

#58

Post by penisinthemind »

moxie wrote: post #49

I help develop TextSecure, an Android app which allows users encrypt their text messages: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.thoughtcri... It's fully open source: https://github.com/whispersystems/textsecure You can also sign up to be notified when it's released for iOS: https://whispersystems.org/blog/iphone-rsn/

i'm tired of your faggy spam..

Re: NSA collects millions of text messages daily in 'untargeted' global sweep

#59

Post by kafkaesque »

ogreyonder wrote: post #25
angersock wrote: post #7

From the slide, a subtitle: SMS Text Messages: A Goldmine to Exploit Oy vey--they don't even care anymore, do they? They're not even trying. Fuck it, have a friendly octopus: http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/52a3bb30eab8ea8a2d3...

I looked that logo up thinking it probably came from some sort of 70's science fiction book about a dystopian future. Nope, National Reconnaissance Office. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NRO_Launches I mean, at least they're being honest!

"NROL-39 is represented by the octopus, a versatile, adaptable, and highly intelligent creature. Emblematically, enemies of the United States can be reached no matter where they choose to hide. 'Nothing is beyond our reach' defines this mission and the value it brings to our nation and the warfighters it supports, who serve valiantly all over the globe, protecting our nation".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA-247

Re: NSA collects millions of text messages daily in 'untargeted' global sweep

#60

Post by r0h1n »

pilooch wrote: post #54
moxie wrote: post #49

I help develop TextSecure, an Android app which allows users encrypt their text messages: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.thoughtcri... It's fully open source: https://github.com/whispersystems/textsecure You can also sign up to be notified when it's released for iOS: https://whispersystems.org/blog/iphone-rsn/

I love textsecure. My problems is twofold: I don't know in advance who is using it from my contacts, and I know for sure none of my non geek relations is using it, not even for business stuff, which could make sense. And so as much as I like it (thanks!!!) I am not convinced this is the solution. Am I wrong ?

As I understand, you can use Textsecure as your default SMS app which means it will automatically send either a plain or encrypted message to a recipient depending on whether they have the app installed or not.

Of course if you use a non-stock messaging app, like Handcent for instance, you may not want to switch to Textsecure for other features/reasons.

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