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Code != computer science

ultrasaurus.com

51–60 of 148 posts

Re: Code != computer science

#51
post #20

I look at this from the other side as well. I've worked with brilliant people with ivy league CS degrees who wrote much messier and less maintainable code than me, an autodidact designer/js dev with 1.5 years of experience. Maybe I'm wrong, and there was something in their code that I wasn't seeing, but I don't think so. There can also be a bit of an attitude, like the person is thinking "of course this is good, I we…

It also makes you more successful in life if you learn to delegate work to other people, it clears your mind for a moment of brilliance and you can take all the credit when they are done with their labor. If life were fair our jobs would let us grow like in academia and but this is not the case in industry.

Re: Code != computer science

#52
"So, please, go do that hour of code if you haven’t already. Who knows? Maybe you’ll want to become a software developer, but even if you don’t, it’s worth the effort, and might even be fun!"

I need someone to please explain this last bit to me. He seems to suggest that it's pretty easy to become a software developer. This idea seems to be pretty common across hacker news. That all it takes is a little bit of research, and anyone can get a job as a software developer. Is this true? I've been trying to change my current career path from engineering to software development, and I cannot seem to get any conversations started. Does anyone have experience changing their early career paths and how they went about implementing the necessary steps?

Re: Code != computer science

#53
The truth is that the world needs a lot more software engineers than computer scientists. Yes, there are a lot of hard problems that are best solved by government or academic research, but there is a lot more software eating the world. And to develop the vast majority of that software, you don't need much academic CS knowledge.

I know, because I have a mastered in CS and considered getting my Phd. I decided to join industry instead, because I wanted more money. I hardly use any of my CS knowledge on a day to day basis working as a web developer. Yet I make $160k in my mid 20s while my 60 year old professor has never cracked 6 digits... It's sad in a way, but to each his own I guess.

Re: Code != computer science

#54
post #20

I look at this from the other side as well. I've worked with brilliant people with ivy league CS degrees who wrote much messier and less maintainable code than me, an autodidact designer/js dev with 1.5 years of experience. Maybe I'm wrong, and there was something in their code that I wasn't seeing, but I don't think so. There can also be a bit of an attitude, like the person is thinking "of course this is good, I we…

> I look at this from the other side as well. I've worked with brilliant people with ivy league CS degrees who wrote much messier and less maintainable code than me, an autodidact designer/js dev with 1.5 years of experience. Maybe I'm wrong, and there was something in their code that I wasn't seeing, but I don't think so.

I would have ignored your comment were it not for you mentioning that you write javascript. I started learning it on and off a few weeks ago, and yesterday I installed spidermonkey as a standalone shell. What I have noticed is that a lot of the syntax that controls flow is very similar to C, which is notorious for being gibberish. I'm guessing the same will apply to js. I do not have a CS degree, but would you say that this is readable? This is a function for extraction of nodes in a double linked list that I am currently kicking into shape.

  /*
  *	extract *p__ from p__.
  *	but original *p__ is shifted left or right \
  *	    if there is still space.
  *	extracted ndi* is returned, but the remainder of the list \
  *	    is sewn back up.
   */
  
  ndi *extract_ndi(ndi **p__, const int dec) {
      ndi *q_=*p__;
      if(dec>=_PREV_) {
	  *p__=*(q_->lnk+dec); /* the shift */
	  if(*((*p__)->lnk+!dec)=*(q_->lnk+!dec)) { /* sew up */
	      *((*(q_->lnk+!dec))->lnk+dec)=*p__;
	      *(q_->lnk+!dec)=NULL; /* burn ends of extraction */
	  }
	  *(q_->lnk+dec)=NULL;
      } else if(dec==_LONE_) /* final possibility is that *p__==NULL */
	  *p__=NULL; /* ie. dec==_DEAD_, no which ain't it not worth man */
      return q_;
  }
What the hell was I smoking when I wrote this? I can't even read it myself.

Writing convoluted code is more to do with a certain state of mind. You should ask your coworkers where they obtain LSD, not where they got their degree. I haven't come across any acid for about a dozen years, I think it has gone out of fashion.

Of course if this was Perl it would be even worse.

Re: Code != computer science

#55
Like many things in programming, it all boils down to the samn damn arguments that musicians have. Sure, you don't need a music degree to be a musician. But I'm damned proud that I have one, because it's helped me advance the one thing in life that I love doing more than anything else further past most people my age. I have a B.M. in Jazz Studies with a concentration in Vocal Performance.

The only way you can reasonably believe that college was "a rip off" is if you didn't have ANY fun that whole time. If you can honestly say that, then I am sorry. You allowed a part of your adolescence become robbed by people who told you what to do. But if you had even an ounce of enjoyment throughout college, if the idea of learning computer science made you smile even one bit, then it was absolutely not a rip-off or a waste of time.

"Your time was not wasted if you were happy" - John Lennon

Re: Code != computer science

#56
post #54
post #20

I look at this from the other side as well. I've worked with brilliant people with ivy league CS degrees who wrote much messier and less maintainable code than me, an autodidact designer/js dev with 1.5 years of experience. Maybe I'm wrong, and there was something in their code that I wasn't seeing, but I don't think so. There can also be a bit of an attitude, like the person is thinking "of course this is good, I we…

> I look at this from the other side as well. I've worked with brilliant people with ivy league CS degrees who wrote much messier and less maintainable code than me, an autodidact designer/js dev with 1.5 years of experience. Maybe I'm wrong, and there was something in their code that I wasn't seeing, but I don't think so. I would have ignored your comment were it not for you mentioning that you write javascript. I s…

So you never told us what you were smoking.

Re: Code != computer science

#57
This. If you're judging Computer Science by coding, you are making a huge mistake. Computer Science does not teach you how to code. I remember the only time my university teach me how to code is during our introductory course. Computer Programming 1. And that's it. You're on your own in your coding.

Computer Science is more than just coding. It involves graphs, complexity, math, theories, and much more. Which is a lot. And is hard.

Like math, anyone can do math. But not anyone can be a mathematician. Anyone can code, but not anyone can be a computer scientist.

Re: Code != computer science

#58

I think Dr. Nassim Taleb, author of Fooled By Randomness put it the best. Real knowledge is gained from tinkering, trial and error. A degree from a recognized academic institution is largely a social credit that is earned through memorization and the ability to recall and recite those references. I studied Economics, so I had to figure out how to code (still at it) by relying on the internet and experimenting. Doing…

> I have friends with computing science degree yet they cannot code or have shipped software.

So do I, but CS degrees are not about memorization. At least not in North America or Europe. For my CS degree, I had to follow the math and deliver code. Toy code of course, but its a long way from "recalling and reciting references." If it had been about memorization I would probably have failed.

I also know people who say they got CS degrees through memorization and the ability to recall and recite references. They are Indian and Chinese. And they can code (even if they believe their degrees do not help.)

Re: Code != computer science

#59
post #27
post #20

I look at this from the other side as well. I've worked with brilliant people with ivy league CS degrees who wrote much messier and less maintainable code than me, an autodidact designer/js dev with 1.5 years of experience. Maybe I'm wrong, and there was something in their code that I wasn't seeing, but I don't think so. There can also be a bit of an attitude, like the person is thinking "of course this is good, I we…

I think people are falsely equating computer science with software engineering. You can get a very strong theoretical basis for programming at a place like Stanford, and the work you can do may have nothing to do with best practices but rather a lot to do with more abstract concepts like algorithmic efficiency or graph analysis or what not. As a Stanford student personally Ive learned a lot more about best practices…

Plus, there are some things that I don't believe can be taught effectively in college. Stanford told me tests were good, but I didn't really believe it until I had to work on a legacy codebase without tests.

Best practices are easier to digest when you've experienced the problem they're meant to solve.

Re: Code != computer science

#60
post #58

I think Dr. Nassim Taleb, author of Fooled By Randomness put it the best. Real knowledge is gained from tinkering, trial and error. A degree from a recognized academic institution is largely a social credit that is earned through memorization and the ability to recall and recite those references. I studied Economics, so I had to figure out how to code (still at it) by relying on the internet and experimenting. Doing…

> I have friends with computing science degree yet they cannot code or have shipped software. So do I, but CS degrees are not about memorization. At least not in North America or Europe. For my CS degree, I had to follow the math and deliver code. Toy code of course, but its a long way from "recalling and reciting references." If it had been about memorization I would probably have failed. I also know people who say…

How the hell does this lead to stereotyping an entire race? Just so you know India and China have produced a large bulk of academics in computing science, across various educational institutions in North America and Europe. So I find your statement very arrogant and condescending.

Of course you can't memorize your way through a CS course requiring you to write code, but my point is exactly that, school doesn't teach you to actually be able to ship code or write something. It's something one must discover on own terms.

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