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Research shows how MacBook Webcams can spy on their users without warning

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Research shows how MacBook Webcams can spy on their users without warning

#51

Post by FireBeyond »

wmeredith wrote: post #32
x0054 wrote: post #9

Honestly, I don’t understand why it’s so difficult to create a camera chip not susceptible to any software hack. The camera sensor needs electrical current to work. Simply place the LED inline or in parallel to the camera and you are done. Any time current is sent to the camera sensor, the LED cant help it but light up. My knowledge of electronics is limited, but I know for a fact that this can be achieved without th…

It's such an obvious solution that I really thought that WAS the case until just now. Why in the world would you tackle this problem any other way?

Well, Apple and supporters (obligatory disclaimer: I own, and love, my rMBP, iPhone 5, and have two iPads in my house) have claimed that it was the case, and that it was physically impossible not to.

Then again, Apple’s marketing for the iPhone 5s made many claims of “subdermal fields”, “RF micro fields produced by the human body”, and how, as a result, it couldn’t be faked.

Except it could. Fairly easily. And without any remote pretense around the ‘emulate a live finger’. Just the fingerprint.

Much as I like Apple, these are pretty bold-faced deceptions.

Re: Research shows how MacBook Webcams can spy on their users without warning

#52

Post by superuser2 »

nexttimer wrote: post #40
boon wrote: post #17

Does anyone know of how to secure against this type of thing (other than tape)?

Buy hardware and software you, as the paying customer, remain allowed to control.

I'm assuming this is a dig at Apple. Care to show that any other laptop manufacturer's webcams are impervious to having their firmware overwritten?

Re: Research shows how MacBook Webcams can spy on their users without warning

#53

Post by superuser2 »

greglindahl wrote: post #43
justin wrote: post #5

I would be more concerned about the microphone. I can easily cover the camera with tape. Also, random pictures of me programming or reading HN are probably less damaging audio recordings of conversations I might be having.

I use a cut-out piece of postit note for the camera, and a small piece of etape for the microphones -- seems stable, and both are pretty easy to take off without leaving too much spooge behind.

Does tape actually provide enough impedance to prevent surveillance through your microphones? Seems like all an attacker would have to do is amplify (and possibly filter) the audio a bit.

Re: Research shows how MacBook Webcams can spy on their users without warning

#54

Post by indrax »

bithive123 wrote: post #29
Zikes wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One could argue that devising an effective privacy strategy to build into new device categories would be a waste of time until the devices are sufficiently popular enough to warrant the effort. Now that we've reached that tipping point there should be sufficient interest from an adequate number of skilled and educated people to begin to work on solving this problem.

Display-mounted cameras should have a sliding lens cap built in which can close (but not open) itself after a configurable period of non-use.

Which then nearly ruins the use case of theft recovery software. Sometimes you want to turn on the camera in software.

Re: Research shows how MacBook Webcams can spy on their users without warning

#55

Post by cinquemb »

greglindahl wrote: post #43
justin wrote: post #5

I would be more concerned about the microphone. I can easily cover the camera with tape. Also, random pictures of me programming or reading HN are probably less damaging audio recordings of conversations I might be having.

I use a cut-out piece of postit note for the camera, and a small piece of etape for the microphones -- seems stable, and both are pretty easy to take off without leaving too much spooge behind.

What about internal microphones on MB's?

osascript -e 'set volume input volume 0' doesn't really produce the expected result…

Re: Research shows how MacBook Webcams can spy on their users without warning

#56

Post by milhous »

x0054 wrote: post #9

Honestly, I don’t understand why it’s so difficult to create a camera chip not susceptible to any software hack. The camera sensor needs electrical current to work. Simply place the LED inline or in parallel to the camera and you are done. Any time current is sent to the camera sensor, the LED cant help it but light up. My knowledge of electronics is limited, but I know for a fact that this can be achieved without th…

I thought the same as well. An LED in series with the circuit powering the CMOS sensor is all that would be needed. No amount of reprogramming is going to bypass a physical circuit.

This is disappointing, and I expect Apple will redesign the cameras because of it.

Re: Research shows how MacBook Webcams can spy on their users without warning

#57

Post by datums »

I'm not crazy, yes. When I first purchased a laptop with a camera (MBP 2008) I put tape on it. I did some research and found that the NSA had published a report that stated they could not confidently secure the iSight camera from external access. trying to find it now.

Re: Research shows how MacBook Webcams can spy on their users without warning

#58

Post by evan_ »

troubledwine wrote: post #37

There's quite a bit of alarm here and in the wording of the article. But no mention of HOW this exploit is applied. I mean surely they're not saying you send someone an e-mail and if they open it their webcam firmware is changed? Or visit a web page or have a flash banner ad run? You'd have to get the user to download and run a package installer that prompts for an admin password RIGHT? In other words; this isn't jus…

> You'd have to get the user to download and run a package installer that prompts for an admin password RIGHT?

In theory; but a motivated party with sufficient resources could simply ("simply") author a fake OS update and deliver it to you over a compromised ISP and you'd never know the difference.

Re: Research shows how MacBook Webcams can spy on their users without warning

#59

Post by enneff »

troubledwine wrote: post #37

There's quite a bit of alarm here and in the wording of the article. But no mention of HOW this exploit is applied. I mean surely they're not saying you send someone an e-mail and if they open it their webcam firmware is changed? Or visit a web page or have a flash banner ad run? You'd have to get the user to download and run a package installer that prompts for an admin password RIGHT? In other words; this isn't jus…

To do this you need code execution privileges on the target machine, but there are many ways to do this (social engineering, browser exploit, etc). The research is specifically about disabling the camera light.

Re: Research shows how MacBook Webcams can spy on their users without warning

#60

Post by bentcorner »

eurleif wrote: post #16

And I thought I was clever for turning the light on for only a tiny split-second to take a picture... (I wasn't writing malware. I put the program on my own laptop before I sent it in to be serviced. http://ecritters.biz/applecarefacility/ )

I do something similar, whenever my laptop is opened it takes a few pictures. The light is on only for a split second.

It's actually kind of amusing to see pictures of you and notice your hair growing over several weeks :)

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