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Fedora 20 released

docs.fedoraproject.org

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Re: Fedora 20 released

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please, let's not discuss Java EE.)

I don't know what experience you have with modern Java EE, but it's incredibly modular these days and is no more than a collection of components that can operate independent of each other.

Of course, I am nobody to criticize the sacred things, so there are few links to the people who are worth of paying attention to (and who gave us golang).

http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/java http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/OO_programming

Re: Fedora 20 released

#52
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK it's quite easy to hook up rsyslog to it and then it doesn't make a difference.

That seems a bit inefficient to me, you'd end up with both binary and textual log files.

Presumably if you want syslogd's features, it's for something other than the text log files (logging to SQL, network logging, ...).

Re: Fedora 20 released

#53
post #31

Seeing the removal of syslogd, getting more than a bit grumpy here at the continuing direction Redhat is dragging the Linux world. Journald may serve the basic user well, it can't do half the stuff a good syslogd configuration can do; it can't pipe messages to other processes, it can't send messages to remote servers, it can't send messages to multiple places. If redhat had put in services to let journald do the thin…

It's not a direct replacement. Journald does stuff that syslog can't do, but it doesn't reimplement everything. Instead, you can pipe to syslog if you want syslog features. - Journald logs the whole boot process - Journald can make sure that an item really came from some process. It also tries to seal the journal so that it can't be tempered with. - It's built into the other systemd tools. For example, when you notic…

It also provides a pretty sensible API for walking through the log from programs.

http://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/sd-journal.h...

Re: Fedora 20 released

#54
post #48

Ruby Devs, Take note, Fedora 20 has ruby 2 & rails 4 available. to get started with rails, all you need to do is: yum install rubygem-rails and Bam, it will install latest ruby, rails & other dependencies. That's not all, they have more than 2thousand ruby related packages(all recent versions). Fedora seems to have one of best ruby support. Way to go! https://apps.fedoraproject.org/packages/s/ruby

How does one decide whether to install from a package repository, or directly via gems? What's the typical time lag before a package get updated after a gem does?

Package repository may bump versions without warning, and lags behind gems. There is no typical lag time, it's updated whenever the packager feels like it. You can file bugs at redhat bugzilla to try and motivate them to update packages sooner, if you want something specific.

On the plus side, you get security updates, and any gems that are packaged should be compatible with each other to some extent. In general, I think ruby packages are good for end-users, but maybe not great for developing ruby applications or other gems.

(I don't mean to rag on Fedora packaging here — I'm a Fedora packager! I just want people to be aware of the limitations of distro packaging.)

Re: Fedora 20 released

#55
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Why would you want to? Upstart is inferior to systemd in every way and if Fedora supported both then it would have to test every package that contained a daemon twice.

Because upstart is easy and systemd is difficult.

Linux is hard, let's go shopping!

Re: Fedora 20 released

#56
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK it's quite easy to hook up rsyslog to it and then it doesn't make a difference.

That seems a bit inefficient to me, you'd end up with both binary and textual log files.

If you're doing this, you probably want to disable saving the binary logs -- journald will still retain recent logs from the current boot, so the status commands will still work.

Personally, I uninstalled syslog and enabled binary log retention back when I was running F18, and I'm wishing my Ubuntu and Debian boxes had the same ability.

Re: Fedora 20 released

#57
post #48

Ruby Devs, Take note, Fedora 20 has ruby 2 & rails 4 available. to get started with rails, all you need to do is: yum install rubygem-rails and Bam, it will install latest ruby, rails & other dependencies. That's not all, they have more than 2thousand ruby related packages(all recent versions). Fedora seems to have one of best ruby support. Way to go! https://apps.fedoraproject.org/packages/s/ruby

How does one decide whether to install from a package repository, or directly via gems? What's the typical time lag before a package get updated after a gem does?

I avoid package gems like the plague. It makes dependency management a gigantic pain in the ass and forces you to target your code to a specific version of an operating system. You can't take a system that works just fine in Fedora and move it to Debian without making sure the gem version differences don't break anything.

In today's cloud-based hosting environment, you want to preserve mobility whenever possible, and Bundler does a better job of managing Ruby dependencies than dpkg/yum does. You can then use configuration management to get a system bootstrapped to a base where all your Ruby projects can run, then Bundler can take care of project-specific dependencies. It's not perfect, a lot of times a project gem will require system dependencies, like MySQL, but the separation of concerns does help a bit.

You should, however, use system Ruby because using RVM / Rbenv in production vastly increases complexity, and because the system dependencies that your gems have will be the right versions. It's much easier now that the latest Ubuntu packages Ruby 2. It took me all of an afternoon to redo the configuration management and provisioning and migrate my projects when Ubuntu 13.10 came out.

Re: Fedora 20 released

#58
Just for the record:

- I've been using Fedora (VM, test, production server) since release 4 or 5. - I have a VM that has been updated without full reinstall since release 11. It will be destroyed soon, as I'm reinstalling the host. - I've been using Fedora as my main desktop since Fedora 16.

My experience varies, depending on the sh*t they decide to push (like Gnome 3 or systemd). It takes time so that things get stable (or I get more used to them).

As a full stack developer, I almost never use distro packages like gems or python libs or java libs. Even tools like Eclipse I prefer to install them separated.

Overall, I'm satisfied.

Re: Fedora 20 released

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what experience you have with modern Java EE, but it's incredibly modular these days and is no more than a collection of components that can operate independent of each other.

Of course, I am nobody to criticize the sacred things, so there are few links to the people who are worth of paying attention to (and who gave us golang). http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/java http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/OO_programming

So with a handful of out of context citations and some rather retarded points of view (Greenspun WTF?) you are trying to convince people? Really? At least give it _some_ effort. This way it is rather boring...

Re: Fedora 20 released

#60
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you need syslogd, isn’t it as simple as yum install syslogd and then you’re sorted?

I can, however, again, it's a pretty poor direction that only serves to fragment systems. Many of the complaints that drove the creation of journald could have been better solved through a better default syslogd configuration. Additionally, the journald solution for needs such as remote logging or logging to multiple locations means that you now need to pipe through a process that has a near sole job of piping to ano…

RedHat Fedora makes no apologies for dropping legacy support. Heck, they threw out ifconfig in Fedora 19.

It's good to be dropping things like syslogd from the default distribution, and the only reason it was ditched was because syslogd is behind the times.

Yes, syslogd does more. If you want those features, install it. Forcing it on everyone, regardless, serves no purpose.

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