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NSA speaks out on Snowden, spying [video]

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Re: NSA speaks out on Snowden, spying [video]

#51

Post by joe_the_user »

grugq wrote: post #32
olefoo wrote: post #4

The fact that Clapper is still in office months after it was revealed that he had in point of fact lied to congress during sworn testimony should tell you everything you need to know. The surveillance machinery formerly known as Total Information Awareness is being built and fielded with or without the consent of the governed and most definitely without the consent of those of us who don't happen to be "US Persons".…

It is incredibly simple politics. He is in place to continue to soak up the bad publicity from the Snowden event. Once the bad publicity stops, he will step down. There is no point, politically, of taking him out right now. His replacement will end up tarnished with the bad PR as he starts his gig. http://www.constitution.org/mac/prince00.htm The NSA is unable to do a thorough damage assessment -- they don't know how…

It is incredibly simple politics. He is in place to continue to soak up the bad publicity from the Snowden event. Once the bad publicity stops, he will step down. There is no point, politically, of taking him out right now. His replacement will end up tarnished with the bad PR as he starts his gig.

That is the usual way this goes. But we don't yet have the data to determine whether this is what's happening.

The situation may just be an indication that the NSA has joined the old Ma Bell and Italy's Berlusconi in being able to say "we don't care, we don't have to"

Re: NSA speaks out on Snowden, spying [video]

#52

Post by jdonaldson »

Bahamut wrote: post #44

FWIW, some of the revelations in the NSA video isn't particularly new - you can get a sense of how the NSA operates by visiting Palantir's website (they create custom software for agencies like the NSA). I highly suspect that the video reveals that software in action for forming links with phone metadata. Contrary to a lot of what has been said on HN, a lot of what the NSA does is good for the US. It would appear Gen…

It's pretty faint praise if you have to argue that a lot of what does is good. It's like listening to someone in an abusive relationship.

They have willfully violated privacy expectations of individuals and corporations, and they seem to have enjoyed doing it (the slide deck showing how they sniff google data comes to mind).

They do have a big job to do, but "protecting the US as an entity" is not a risk to the extent you imply. Even additional terrorist attacks on the scale of 9/11 are not going to threaten the future of our country. Furthermore, even in the presence of such pervasive surveillance by the NSA, we are still vulnerable to attacks of terrorism, such as the Boston Marathon bombings. The American citizen is not really any safer than before, and in fact is more vulnerable to abuse by those with access to sensitive personal data.

What's happening now is in fact a good deal of logical thought. The question is whether the NSA's operations need to be severely curtailed and/or monitored.

Finally, if you're looking for the scared-mode people, I would suggest looking to the individuals who have put their personal freedoms at stake to try and bring evidence of wrong-doing to light.

Re: NSA speaks out on Snowden, spying [video]

#53

Post by rdtsc »

ihsw wrote: post #46
rdtsc wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this stuff scares the crap out of me. I used to live in the ex Soviet Union. Yeah, it was a time when things were thawing out, and people had stopped disappearing. One thing that was still there, that I remember, was a persistent fear of the state. Not acute, but kind of like a dull pain -- in the background, you feel it, and are aware of it. Jokes in private were made about the party and government, inefficiency a…

> I would got to a protest to DC, but hmm, facial recognition The GPS radio/cellular radio are used to find and pinpoint protester identities, at least momentarily. It is an eventuality that local police departments get such devices for $30K, but right now they cost an order of magnitude higher and it's not quite plug-and-play.

Taking the battery out of the phone should work. Anyone tested or tried a Faraday cage case for a phone? Would a nice copper mesh case work?

Also in DC it is not illegal to wear a mask. In Virginia it is a felony, though (not an Onion article):

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-422

Re: NSA speaks out on Snowden, spying [video]

#54

Post by sixothree »

rlu wrote: post #35
tmuir wrote: post #7

This was public relations, plain and simple. Paint Snowden like a weirdo, ask softball question after softball question, give vague hints about the scary threats that deem this all necessary, and blindly trust the answers of the guy in charge of the entire operation, as if he had no incentive whatsoever to mislead anyone. Then wrap it all up with "Just how did we get this access that no other news agency could?" Gee,…

What annoyed me is that, as with anything, the devil is in the details. And the questions failed to clarify on details. A few examples (all quotes paraphrased): 1. "we only listen to conversations of non americans" -----Ok, so what happens when an American has a conversation with a non American? Do you tap it at all? Do you get both sides of conversation? Only one side? 2. "you can only look at a protected phone numb…

3. note the use of the word target instead of listen

Re: NSA speaks out on Snowden, spying [video]

#55

Post by siculars »

What a puff piece if ever there was one. I'm actually concerned that 60 Minutes would actually air such obviously pro NSA propaganda especially after their Bengazi disaster. How anyone can take this seriously is beyond me. And the fact that Alexander could blatantly lie to the world on national television is outrageous.

Re: NSA speaks out on Snowden, spying [video]

#56

Post by olefoo »

grugq wrote: post #32
olefoo wrote: post #4

The fact that Clapper is still in office months after it was revealed that he had in point of fact lied to congress during sworn testimony should tell you everything you need to know. The surveillance machinery formerly known as Total Information Awareness is being built and fielded with or without the consent of the governed and most definitely without the consent of those of us who don't happen to be "US Persons".…

It is incredibly simple politics. He is in place to continue to soak up the bad publicity from the Snowden event. Once the bad publicity stops, he will step down. There is no point, politically, of taking him out right now. His replacement will end up tarnished with the bad PR as he starts his gig. http://www.constitution.org/mac/prince00.htm The NSA is unable to do a thorough damage assessment -- they don't know how…

You are most likely correct.

It seems as though the Intelligence Community is being forced back to 'siloing' since the pooled resource approach seems to be so vulnerable to singleton conscience-ridden whistleblowers. In a way this plays right into Assange's analysis of the cognitive structure of rule by conspiracy in that an organization can know things, but cannot both discuss them internally and keep them secret at the same time. In effect an attack that requires internal barriers to communication to prevent; is also an attack on the organizations overall cognitive ability.

Re: NSA speaks out on Snowden, spying [video]

#57

Post by shard972 »

res0nat0r wrote: post #48
jgg wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reddit didn't invent the word "shill." I understood the article just fine! Did you? I don't care what his job is - he still lied! The internal logic of that piece is, "if he didn't deny it, people would think it was true!" The NSA was doing it anyway, so that makes fuck-all difference, now doesn't it?

I find it perfectly acceptable to lie during an open session hearing about top secret programs if those doing the questioning are doing it to be politically motivated, ie to embarrass the President. If your hearing is actually looking for the truth and not looking to out top secret programs because you have an ideological reason against that, then fine do it in a closed door hearing, where I would think something lik…

> I find it perfectly acceptable to lie during an open session hearing about top secret programs if those doing the questioning are doing it to be politically motivated

As opposed to what other kind of motivation? The only kind of questions they ever get are political so it seems like you think that people at the NSA can just lie about just about anything and it's just fine.

Re: NSA speaks out on Snowden, spying [video]

#58

Post by rosser »

res0nat0r wrote: post #48
jgg wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reddit didn't invent the word "shill." I understood the article just fine! Did you? I don't care what his job is - he still lied! The internal logic of that piece is, "if he didn't deny it, people would think it was true!" The NSA was doing it anyway, so that makes fuck-all difference, now doesn't it?

I find it perfectly acceptable to lie during an open session hearing about top secret programs if those doing the questioning are doing it to be politically motivated, ie to embarrass the President. If your hearing is actually looking for the truth and not looking to out top secret programs because you have an ideological reason against that, then fine do it in a closed door hearing, where I would think something lik…

...ie to embrace the President.

Yeah, because Wyden's motivation in asking the questions he asked was totally to buddy up to Obama.

Re: NSA speaks out on Snowden, spying [video]

#59

Post by doug11235 »

dephex wrote: post #14

"He was taking a technical examination for potential employment at NSA; he used his system administrator privileges to go into the account of the NSA employee who was administering that test, and he took both questions and the answers, and used them to pass the test." WHAT? He was a potential employee at the NSA but was already a system administrator, guys. That's the only reason this all happened - because he's a li…

Government contractors are not considered government employees.

Re: NSA speaks out on Snowden, spying [video]

#60

Post by res0nat0r »

shard972 wrote: post #57
res0nat0r wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it perfectly acceptable to lie during an open session hearing about top secret programs if those doing the questioning are doing it to be politically motivated, ie to embarrass the President. If your hearing is actually looking for the truth and not looking to out top secret programs because you have an ideological reason against that, then fine do it in a closed door hearing, where I would think something lik…

> I find it perfectly acceptable to lie during an open session hearing about top secret programs if those doing the questioning are doing it to be politically motivated As opposed to what other kind of motivation? The only kind of questions they ever get are political so it seems like you think that people at the NSA can just lie about just about anything and it's just fine.

The issue is here:

> There is an added wrinkle here, however, is that it is not clear to me whether Clapper could have given a direct (and truthful) answer in a public hearing, as such an answer would have required him to disclose the existence of a then-classified government program. Even a non-answer or evasion could have revealed the existence of operations the NSA was trying to keep secret.

http://www.volokh.com/2013/06/11/did-james-clapper-lie-to-co...

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