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US drone strike kills 15 civilians in Yemen by mistake

reuters.com

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Re: US drone strike kills 15 civilians in Yemen by mistake

#51

Post by joering2 »

X4 wrote: post #48
ck2 wrote: post #2

Wait, ANOTHER wedding? Didn't we do this a year or two ago also? We just wiped out 15 completely innocent people? Destroying their lives and their families forever? Can you imagine the holy hell if a foreign government did that in a US city? Shut down all armed drones. Review the entire use of them from top to bottom. This isn't a video game, there is no do-over.

Isn't that illegal? Or is that legal, because there is officially war between American and Yemen? (serious) I thought the legal implications of terminating people from a foreign country remotely is either an act of aggression or already war, depending on how the affected political party sees it. So either it means: a) America would have to pay for the losses and families. b) Yemen and America are in war. c) Yemen cap…

or d) Nobody is big/strong/"stupid" enough to fuck with US.. at least not officially to start a war - so US can do whatever they want.

Re: US drone strike kills 15 civilians in Yemen by mistake

#52

Post by malandrew »

rayiner wrote: post #32
MartinCron wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you imagine the holy hell if a foreign government did that in a US city? You've just stepped into that intellectual minefield that's called "American Exceptionalism". Enjoy your stay.

No, this does not have to do with "American Exceptionalism." It has to do with the much more basic concept that sovereign nations reserve the right to kill people in other sovereign nations in pursuit of their own security. The U.S. just gets the brunt of the blame for these sorts of accidents because it bankrolls geopolitical stability for the rest of the world.

This definition is a double-edged sword. What happens when non-secular state defines certain Westernisms/Americanisms as an existential threat to social moralities derived from the religion that gives a government legitimacy among its populace? In the case of non-secular governments, existential threats to religious mores are basically also threats to security. The criminals who blew up the Twin Towers on September 11th viewed their actions as aligned with their right to kill people in other sovereign nations in pursuit of their own security.

    "The U.S. just gets the brunt of the blame for these sorts 
    of accidents because it bankrolls geopolitical stability 
    for the rest of the world."
Many would argue that we reduce geopolitical stability by greatly distorting geopolitics through far too many policies to enumerate here.

Re: US drone strike kills 15 civilians in Yemen by mistake

#53

Post by malandrew »

pstuart wrote: post #26
middleclick wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The repercussions are equally serious. What America is basically doing is creating more terrorists by harming innocent people. It's not a nice thing to see your loved ones get killed for no reason. Couple that with low levels of education, poverty, and you have more "Death to America" people who believe that jihad is the only way to salvation in an otherwise meaningless life.

A more cynical person might think that this was intentional -- to keep the pipeline full.

Given some of the comments that have come out of the the Stratfor emails, I don't even think you would need to be a cynical person. There are many in Washington D.C. (and probably in every capital) that are more than eager to fan flames because it keeps their pipelines full.

Re: US drone strike kills 15 civilians in Yemen by mistake

#55

Post by FireBeyond »

joering2 wrote: post #50
MrZongle2 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you imagine the holy hell if a foreign government did that in a US city? After the events of the last year, I don't have that much trouble imagining the US government doing that in a US city.

For now Bush does not travel by public planes, because of some places like Switzerland he [1] can be persecuted for war /torture crimes. If US forces truly invade Iraq to bring justice and democracy, then let's hope one day Iraqiis government will succeed in building that. And send a justified drone after Bush. [1] http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/05/bush-switzerland-to...

Persecuted? Or prosecuted?

Because if we were to apply the laws, rules used at the Nuremburg trials, every US President from WWII onwards, Truman included, could be charged:

1. Participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of a crime against peace 2. Planning, initiating and waging wars of aggression and other crimes against peace 3. War crimes 4. Crimes against humanity

Re: US drone strike kills 15 civilians in Yemen by mistake

#57

Post by lawnchair_larry »

elwell wrote: post #56

Not good; are we creating more revenge terrorists than we are killing with these drone strikes?

Think of the number of innocents who died in 9/11.

Now think of how many people you heard around the country shortly after, talking about their desire to turn Afghanistan/Iraq into a parking lot, or similar. And everybody who was motivated to enlist, and go kick some ass.

I'm going to guess that their reactions aren't a whole lot nicer than our reactions.

Re: US drone strike kills 15 civilians in Yemen by mistake

#58

Post by winfred »

dsuth wrote: post #49
winfred wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Wait, ANOTHER wedding? Didn't we do this a year or two ago also? There is a reason for that. The locals use the US as their weapon of revenge. So if one family has an ongoing argument with another family and one of them is throwing a wedding, the other family reports it as an Al Quaida meeting. Often these family conflicts have lasted for years already and likely more people died in the past (not by drones) So it wa…

Do you have any kind of source for that?

The book "War" by Sebastian Junger. I don't know the page but that doesn't matter, it is a good book.James Galbraith - The Predator State maybe a bit. Oh and Andrés Reséndez - A Land So Strange - The Epic Journey of Cabeza de Vaca of course!! Robert Dallek - Nixon and Kissinger - Partners in Power (2007), Epic of Gilgamesh, Richard Dawkins - The Selfish Gene, Niel Strauss - The Game.

That about covers it. It took me about an hour to compose the list, the main point it brings across is a very nuanced understanding of what it is to be human, described by the people that often have experienced the what they write about. since I'm the composer, I think it might help to mention that I am rated near genius (just as a rough measure - I know it has downsides - however in my case I far exceed my actual score due to some other knobs and whistles I came pre-equiped with). You're welcome. Cunt. :P

Re: US drone strike kills 15 civilians in Yemen by mistake

#59

Post by kubiiii »

andrewfong wrote: post #19
ck2 wrote: post #2

Wait, ANOTHER wedding? Didn't we do this a year or two ago also? We just wiped out 15 completely innocent people? Destroying their lives and their families forever? Can you imagine the holy hell if a foreign government did that in a US city? Shut down all armed drones. Review the entire use of them from top to bottom. This isn't a video game, there is no do-over.

> Shut down all armed drones. Review the entire use of them from top to bottom. This isn't a video game, there is no do-over. To be clear, this isn't a "drone" problem per so, so much as an "airpower" one. There have been plenty of incidents where the use of manned aircraft have resulted in similar (probably) inadvertent civilian casualties -- e.g. the AH-64 attack depicted in the "Collateral Murder" video or the bom…

Reducing the military risk to zero while the civilian risk persists (even if it may be lower) does not appear to be fair from the (surviving) civilian POV. I am not saying that US should have its kids been killed in battlefield, but should pay the proper price for accidentally killing civilians. That means $, excuses, explanations, not total blackout on the topic.

Re: US drone strike kills 15 civilians in Yemen by mistake

#60

Post by [deleted] »

joering2 wrote: post #51
X4 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that illegal? Or is that legal, because there is officially war between American and Yemen? (serious) I thought the legal implications of terminating people from a foreign country remotely is either an act of aggression or already war, depending on how the affected political party sees it. So either it means: a) America would have to pay for the losses and families. b) Yemen and America are in war. c) Yemen cap…

or d) Nobody is big/strong/"stupid" enough to fuck with US.. at least not officially to start a war - so US can do whatever they want.

[deleted]
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